I want to pick up on this.

I've done the entire raid in both 8 and 16. Never hit an enrage in either setting. I mean, we're talking about enrages here as if people in 8 are hitting enrages. They're not. Good raid groups just don't hit enrages.

I have a lot of reservations about the claims being made. How do we know the exact enrage timers when no one is hitting them? How do we know the calculations are correct? All I see are the final numbers with no work being shown.

I don't get particularly hung up on the enrages either. Why? If you're a good raid team you are not going to hit enrage in this content regardless if you're 8 or 16. When it comes to hard mode level it is no secret that the enrage timers are easier on 16. This has been the case since the game launched. What makes 16 inherently harder is the increased tank and raid damage, the increased coordination from double the players, and filling out the raid with twice as many competent players.

None of which has been refuted in these discussions.

I want to pick on this

MoX went into 16 when we had 16 55's, the group was far from optimal and I was one of the few dps who had 1 + piece of 69 gear and we never saw an enrage nor felt that we were close at any time and point. One of the European guilds cleared stryak with 15 raiders and said it was easy. You're not doing 8 man with 7 people plain and simple. We hit enrage at 5% and counted the time and was <9 mins > 8 so we have that time. In 16 our video is 11:30 long and we hit no enrage which makes it > 11:30. So I guess all the groups that have kill videos of styrak on 8 are bad considering they all hit enrage.

Oh and on nearly every fight 8/16 I'm the #1 or #2 sorc on torparse so I guess I'll get that #0 spot and attempt to get in a good group despite being 50-80k behind our melee dps.

EDIT: not 1 or 2 anymore in 16 anymore guess people uploaded logs but you get the point