Thread: Vigilance Buffs
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Racter's Avatar

01.26.2013 , 01:31 PM | #62
I loved vig/veng when i was leveling my first character (Jugg). Seemed to do okay damage, could easily stance swap and tank anything, was moderately fun to play. But it did seem to have too many defense related talents for a DPS tree.

Then my server died, and I made a Sentinel on another server. Very quickly I realized that A) Jugg DPS sucked (specifically low level stuff as I haven't even tried to DPS since level 42) and B) Vig/Veng is literally just a hodge podge of watered down crap from watchmen/annihilation and combat/carnage, with less damage.

It seems very obvious to me that this tree was a late addition to the game. I would very much like to see either A) all of the classes damage being front loaded, no dots whatsoever or B) the duration of all your dots shortened and damage increased significantly.

I also think this class in general needs a hefty damage increase (outside of Focus tree obviously). Tank guards/juggs do so little damage that I straight up ignore them entirely in PVP until they're the last ones left and it is also apparent in PVE when tanking, using a Sin as a comparison. Like... 30% across the board. Minimum. Vig/veng is not quite as bad but could definitely still use some love... Usually ignore you guys too unless it's huttball.

I'd like to see a quick way to apply multiple stacks of sunder on a short cool down. IE, Precision Slash/Gore. By the time you get full stacks up you can easily be killed, in some cases twice over, by several specs/classes in the game. If it's going to be a required thing for the spec, there needs to be a faster way to do it.

I look at it like this. Vig/veng comes to attack me, opens with st leap or just leap. Obviously Master Strike is coming next. Can't stun you so I just blind (off gcd) gore (off gcd) and fire up ravage right back. You either have to eat ~10k of damage from my full ravage while yours misses entirely or waste your cc immunity on choke or awe to stop mine.

Option A) You're basically starting the fight with half health and your big hitter on CD. Assuming I don't get choked or awe'd (your MS probably finished first, even if only slightly) you also just ate a 5k force scream and a 1-3k retaliation on top of the ravage and are now in or very close to execute range. Not really a way you're coming back from this. As soon as your first dot ticks I pop cloak of pain, which you now can't stop from refreshing, 20% damage reduction. If you somehow get a lucky proc and start MS again before you die, I just vanish to cancel cast and kill you. Again, your ship has sailed.

Option B) Okay! You stopped my ravage and shut me down during my gore window. Also wasted my blind. First dot (cloak of pain, thanks!) and I pretty much start spamming massacre. If your MS procs I can still choke, awe, or vanish. Every other attack hits for a pretty negligible amount of damage except for dispatch, but you will be long gone before I get in range of that. I can choke/root/kite through saber ward and easily out dmg enraged defense (no clue what guardian version is called) while you do nothing if you want to get any heals from it.

Annihilation/Watchmen vs You is over even faster, my dots are significantly stronger, are applied faster, and I can choke/vanish once I get them on you, while you just sit there melting. Focus/Rage fight may be in your favor, I can zs/ba, crush you then vanish, buying me time to get stacks and rage to zealous leap/obliterate for my buffed smash. Your ST beats my ST in between smashes... Have a decent chance of winning this one. Another comparison:

Tank Jugg. Fight will take an eternity, you might be able to win 1v1 but it'll take so long I'll have help before you kill me.

Smash Jugg. Same as Smash mara.

Tank Sin. I will be opening on YOU, have fairly comparable ST damage and more than enough CC to keep you locked down long enough to gain an advantage. Speaking from hybrid spec dps gear perspective.

Deception Sin. Burst is far superior to yours. Enough CC to dodge avoid the MS and if you push leap MS I can vanish or pop deflection to likely avoid it. Also have superior defensive cooldowns. Easy fight.

Madness Sin. No idea don't like the playstyle. Stronger or comparable dots, unpredictable burst from death field. Probably coming out ahead.

Pyro PT. lol you know what happens.

AP PT. Don't know never even seen one in PVP afaik.

Tank PT. You are one of like three classes shield rating is useful for! Bad news for you.

Concealment OP probably going to win. If not, can leave so still not a kill for you. Heal op, probably going to win. After your MS, which can be avoided even without cc, your damage is heal-through able and all your dots can be purged. If things go south, cc/vanish and bail.

Ranged in this game is a joke other than snipers, which can probably kill you. Sorcs are a toss up, if they panic after not being able to stun or kb you after you leap they're probably dead. if they open on you from range you might be in trouble.

Seems pretty borked that you can be completely shutdown by another melee class so easily. I really don't like feeling like my team is handicapped as soon as I see that Shien form. I really don't like encouraging people to go respec and regear for smash. But that's the reality of the current situation.

Also: If you're out damaging smashers the smashers on your server are terrible. I agree that 300k single target is important, but they can do that too. So can every other melee class in this game. 300k is a lowbie number for a lot of other specs/classes... 300k is less than a full round of Voidstar if there are healers present and the other team isn't spamming stun bubble at 50.