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Maaruin
01.04.2013 , 12:03 PM | #87
@AggiePunbot:

Quote: Originally Posted by AggiePunbot View Post
I find it interesting that one of the few things both the jedi and sith seem to agree on is that love is to be avoided at all costs.
It's interesting. It does make kind of sense: If you want to become more than a human (or other sentient), you have to leave trivial human things like love behind.

But IIRC for a long time it was perfectly normal for Jedi to love, marry and have families. (It's like this in the Tales of the Jedi comics.) Love also seems to be possible for lower Sith who have given up their ambitions for unlimited power.

@Beniboybling:

[QUOTE=Beniboybling;5675013]Is it? The dark side of the Force is not all about enslaving people and conquering the galaxy. Its as much about mastering your emotions as the light side, except the dark side uses emotions whereas the light side rejects them.[QUOTE]

This seems to be a point where we have a different understanding of the dark side. I don't think all emotions are inherently dark side. The Dark Side is connected to hate, anger, fear. And even these I wouldn't consider as completely dark side, though they are very useful to channel the dark side.
Compassion for example is an emotion far more connected to the light side than the dark. It must be twisted to lead others to the dark side.

AFAIK "controlling/rejecting emotions" was not such a big thing for the Jedi Order throughout history. It was a means to an end. They Jedi thought it would make them better for protecting peace and justice.

As I said, it depends on how you define light and dark. I agree that the Jedi should allow the stoic connection to the Force and the emotional connection to the Force.

But IMO that's not what the conflict is about. The conflict is the classic good vs evil (which doesn't mean Jedi can't be evil and Sith can't be good, but overall it's just that.)

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And yes the Jedi Order claim to strive for peace, but half heartily. How can they full embrace peace if they advocated acts of war? And participate in them? The Je'daii Order would not do that. They would only ever raise a lightsaber to a Sith threat, and even then as a last resort.
Well, the Jedi are mistaken sometimes. But sometimes peace will only lead to more injustice. You are right, the Je'daii Order would not participate in that as long as they are not threatened themselves. IMO they would, for example, not object to the Republic's anti-alien Pius Dea crusades.

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This is the difference here, the Jedi Order always waited for the threat to come to them, they never tried to seek it out and suppress it.
Except when they did. Like they did against the Legions of Lettow. But then they are considered as evil because they attacked. (I'm not sure if you consider them as evil for doing this, but some certainly do.)

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We also have to remember the Force has a will of its own. And as the Father says:

"Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."
I don't think the Father is right about this. He is not the Force, he is just a powerful Force entity. He loved both of his children, but in the end he was on the side of his daughter.

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A Je'daii order would therefore be in harmony with the Force's will, a balance between light and dark. Therefore the Force would not see a need to redress an imbalance, and the Sith threat would never present itself.
From what I've read in the Dawn of the Jedi comicbooks, it seemed for more common for Je'daii members to fall to the dark side and needed to be imprisoned on one of the moons than it was for Jedi.
Experimenting with the Dark Side is dangerous.


Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
i disagree with u there, wookkipedia is a place where all sources are taken into consideration; it is by far the most canon source of information out there(at least when we compare it to any of the other sources that are avanibles to everyone), wookkipedia is definetly muchmore of a truth-worthy source than the game, wich as i said is full of mistakes and contradictions in its codex....

take as a not related to starwars example, the last novel of Mass Effect(the first edition of it)... would u consider it cannon just becouse it was released by Bioware? if u do... LOL... cos it had so many plot holes and contradictions with what was suposed to be cannon that they had to apologise and release several editions of it in order to correct things....
But I said, I read the source which is pointed out on wookiepedia as source for their statement about the Force Wars. And what Wookiepedia stated was not there.

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well yes and no about being stricter, u could still learn partially both sides of the force.... thats what balance is about, been something in between, not completly dark, neither completly light, but u could still follow any of the paths.... and yes, if they decided to embrace all light or all dark they were sended to a moon, they were not killed, or considered traitors or deserters.... they could either stay on the moon following their ideas or embrace balance once more..... to me this seems more reasonable that just rejecting the dark side teachings or the light side teachings all-together like the now-days jedi and sith do...
And when a Jedi like Exar Kun wanted to explore the dark side, the Jedi... simply let him do. Even if it meant a pretty destructive war. Throughout history, the Jedi Order was sometimes allowed more and sometimes allowed less than the Je'daii.

But as I said, many more Je'daii fell to the dark side and had to be exiled than Jedi did. Experimenting with the dark side is dangerous.

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enamored by the force = they became radicals, renouncing to the teachings of peace and balance.... embracing only light and condeeming evil as something that they had to destroy...
Where is your primary source for this? I have heard what those guys said in the game. They weren't radicals. Read up what Wookiepedia says about them, if you trust it more:

Garon Jard
Cala Brin
Ters Sendon

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how to put this:
by that time, those light followers were already Jedi = they were radicals already who left the Je'daii order and teachings, they were decided to only follow light and destroy dark;
Rejivari was one of those first Jedi at the beginning, but then renounced light and united the dark followers under his banner; now, take into consideration that those darksiders were not nesesary seeking the destruction of the Jedi at first, they reunited under a banner, cos the Jedi had taken the task of destroying them... while Rejivari was still on the Jedi side, those darksiders were still following their own path..... remember it was the light siders who first abandoned the idea of balance, not the "power greedy"(as most people consider them) darksiders... what an irony no?
Well, this is a case where Wookiepedia simply contradicts itself.

The light siders first abandoned the balance, but why? Because they wanted to help reaching peace and justice in the galaxy.

And Rajivari was a great philosopher who observed the nature and people and came to the conclusion that it is better for the Jedi Order the, well "become evil". He wouldn't phrase it like that, of course. But he believed that life is a constant battle, mercy lead only to destruction and self-sacrifice was foolish. He is a very interesting person, and I can actually understand why he considered the dark side superior. But you can't make him a missunderstood good guy.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall