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Devlonir
12.28.2012 , 03:27 AM | #536
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
SImply put, we don't know enough to compare RotHC to something like a WoW expansion.
Very much true, so we cannot compare it either way of the argument really. We simply don't know enough yet. Spring 2013, after the launch, we can make a good and honest debate about if the expansion was worth our $10-$20. Until then, all we can do is speculate one way or the other on the information we do have.

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And trying to compare the value of an expansion or content patch based on how long it takes to do the missions / quests and reach level cap is just silly and irrelevant.
I debate that it is not irrelevant because the levelling is the most enjoyable part of TOR. Yes, you are right when you say below that TOR levelling alts is a huge drag if you go through the same planet quests for the 2nd or 3rd time. But either changing faction or doing alternative actions than planet quests to level (like more flashpoints or PVP or using XP boosts) is a very viable strategy in this game as well.
Concerning the point of WoW levelling as well: You can indeed be in a different area. But in for the most part you keep doing the same types quests even in those different areas. Although 1-60 became a nice experience with Cataclysm, it too still has the "kill 10 boars" "gather 10 plants" etc quests very often. Then again, that is how nearly all MMO's or even nearly all RPG's in general are set up. And those that arent like, say, Mass Effect or TSW, have their own levelling issues. Either being too vague/hard for the majority of players or basicly being a corridor filled with enemies as the only type of challenge you get.
WoW levelling, at this time, also has three glaring issues: Earlier expansions. In Cataclysm the old world levelling game was streamlined, but once you hit 60 that comes to a grinding halt and you are back for about 20-25 levels of the same old quests. The amount of different levelling paths in those expansions is also very, very limited.
TOR at least, when it comes to levelling replayability, has the upside of story and dialogues making it slightly interesting throughout the entire thing. Even rolling the same class can be a completely different experience when you choose one of the 3 different 'versions' of each class (evil bastard, goody goody angel or somewhere in the middle).

So really, to me, both games have their own ups and down in alt levelling. And I personally prefer TOR's downsides over WoW's.

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What will matter is how much total new content is added, how long it keeps us engaged, and how much replay value it delivers.
This I 100% agree with. For me, I still think we will get an announcement for a new Flashpoint series (like the rakghoul ones) of 2 to 4 FPs and an Ops (maybe even an Ops series eventually like we have now) to round up the entire Makeb story. But unless we get that, we will level to 55 and then go back to the same old endgame and no variation. This would be a huge mistake.
I will reserve judgement on this until Makeb is actually launched, but we agree that this is an important aspect of it being worth the money or not.

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And just for the record, the last WoW expansion added a new continent with six or seven full zones (zones being similar to planets), a new race with its own starting area, a new class, three raids, two world bosses, multiple daily zones, five dungeons, three existing dungeons updated and given a level cap version, pet battles, player farms, a complete update to the talent system, new class abilities, and two battlegrounds.
Also for a lot more money and with a two year time between then and the last expansion as well as a full year of no new content added. Blizzard is a development team with years of experience churning out content for their MMO so having a good cycle that has went through it's early growing pains, unlike the startup Bioware team you can expect Blizzard to work more efficiently on their expansions.
Still, fact is that it still costs more money. And we don't know what 'new systems' will also be added with Makeb. Again, we cannot judge this untill Spring 2013.

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When we get the details of what will be included in RotHC, we can then start to compare and see how it stacks up to such an expansion in total content and replay-ability and start making comparisons on the relative value of each (which will obviously still have personal biases in the value weighting of the content that is added).
Agree here. For the 10 dollars I expect at least 2 mildly unique stories in Makeb, 1 for Republic 1 for Empire. I expect a rebalancing of classes and abilities because of the 5 new levels and new abilities, making both PVE and PVP feel a bit more fresh. I also expect some flashpoints and 1 ops. That would be acceptable for me personally. Acceptable being far from good I admit.
To make it good, what needs to be added is:
- New gear looks unique to Makeb and not only obtainable through Ops/PVP and/or Cartel Store.
- Part of the "new systems" being at least 1 new mini game like Pazaak, other gambling, or Swoop Racing. All of these fit the Hutt theme good as well.
- At least 1 new World Boss, considering it is a paid planet 2 or more would be better.
- Part of the "new systems" being changes to the current limitation of crafters of what gear they can make in moddable versions (my preferred solution is making all crafted gear Orange quality and making the more unique versions that needs blues or purples come with better mods in them)
- Part of the "new systems" being the promised 'smoothing out of the gear curve', stopping the immense power creep this game has in both PVE and PVP. With the amount of new tiers launched in one year (starting with 3 tiers, now we have 5 tiers of PVE gear) it is key for the future of this game to even it out and Makeb would be the perfect time to do this.
- BONUS: 1 new, faction specific, companion for each faction.

That's what I will measure the succes of Makeb on. And as said: What is announced now is, for me, acceptable for the money I pay. But it won't make make me feel very happy unless some of the other things mentioned also come out with it.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman