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12.13.2012 , 05:35 AM | #516
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
Look, I get what you're saying, I really do. I'm just saying that I see end-game gear as a reward. If people can buy it instead of earning it, it means less to me.
And what I am trying to do is figure out a way to either get around that problem or at the very least make it less enough of an issue so it's not as off-putting. In order to do that, we need to dig down into the underlying reasons why players feel the way they do and get them to actually think about it and think outside the box on how to fix it. We see far too many times people just spout off rhetoric without actually thinking about what they are saying and trying to find a solution to the problem. For many I have noticed that if you actually make them think about what they are saying, it ends up not being a problem for them at all - they just followed the Lemmings off the cliff without even using their own mind to think whether it was a good idea or not.

In a lot of games I have played in the past there are things that I did not like, but upon looking at the bigger picture realized that they were good for the game because they were good for a portion of the playerbase. I may not have enjoyed that particular thing about the game, but I realized without it my overall joy of the game probably would be a lot worse because the lack of it would have affected many more players than just myself. So I learned to deal with it and as a result, found over time that it wasn't such a big deal after all, and my overall enjoyment of the game was not impacted.

Quote: Originally Posted by notalkjustrock View Post
It's clearly not balanced without CM content. If there was no CM they would have either made level 6 missions, instead of jumping form level 5 to level 7, or made it easier to get the level 7 stuff. If they are going to implement an unbalanced, unfun grind in an attempt to extract fees from me for content I have already paid for then I am going elsewhere.

If I went to a movie theatre and bought a ticket at the box office, but then when I went to theatre the usher told me that there was a seat fee, I would not go to that movie theatre again. That's what I'm doing. I guess you'd be the guy who points out that I could just stand for the entire movie.
How about this instead - getting a petition together and asking for the missions to be rebalanced so they are not as OPed as they appear to be right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Prettyevilish View Post
Where'd you get this definition? I don't recall Webster's ever defining pay to win. Last I saw MMO players have always debated that definition, so take your OPINION of the definition and stop trying to hawk it as fact.

As such, there is no concrete definition of it, which means you cannot PROVE anyone is wrong if their definition is that it allows someone to gain an advantage over other players (and being able to buy the items, rather than grinding them out IS an advantage, especially since the grind is so obscenely expensive it's a thinly veiled way to force you to buy them).
Absolutely. It's a shame that more people don't actually read the previous posts in a thread (at the very least read skim through the last half dozen pages to get some idea where the current topic of conversation has lead and the ideas that have been bantered back and forth). Several of us have already agreed that debating the actual definition of P2W is pointless, even if there was an official definition of the term. We would still disagree regardless. Therefore, we are now in the process of actually trying to find a solution to the problem of how to include P4C items without making them overtly feel like they are a P2W item. I have asked several questions (starting around page 48) in posts on previous pages trying to establish the mindsets of what makes players feel the way they do on both sides. Once we can establish that, we can actually work on establishing where the common ground lies.

MarkoJinn ReviveR stated ideas in their posts around page 44 or 45 that I think bears some merit, and were ones that I also have had in the back of my mind - color-coding equipment so that one can differentiate those who did the "work" in game as opposed to the "work" in real life to get the money to buy the gear. Also to simply lockout the gear until the player has completed all content with one character on their account (similar to how GW locked out Hard Mode in the original game).

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