Not even sure why these threads exist. is it just one or two people who continually are trying to push this idea?

Vengeance is fine. Immortal needs 10x more attention then Vengeance does. Vengeance works, and did work. Rage didn't really, hence why they fixed it. Immortal needs more work then both of them put together. we now have a PvP oriented tree, we do not need 2. appreciate the OP's effort though, it's obvious he wants Vengeance to be as viable as Rag now for PvP...but I don't think it's going to happen.