This is the thing, my non-core raiding guildies don't expect to just jump straight in. They have already done EV and KP nightmare, as well as EC and TFB story mode. However, they are all faceroll easy these days. My guildies now have full rakata / black hole gear, so they no longer have any need to go back to the old raids.
The problem now is the jump up in difficulty to EC HM, especially now that story mode got nerfed. These people in my guild, and I expect many other guilds, cannot make the massive jump in difficulty. Not only do the mechanics become harder but you have to be able to play your class to the limit, otherwise you fail enrage timers or die. Nowhere else has challenged them in this way and wiping over and over isn't helping them learn.
It is my job as an officer and raid leader to figure out a way to train these people, but I just can't do it. For myself and the other core raiders in my guild, we had EC HM on farm months ago, we've done first boss TFB HM and nearly got second boss HM too. But, for us, we were forced to learn the hard way: we learned EV and KP whilst in greens, moved to hard mode in columi / tionese before the hardmodes got nerfed, did nightmare mode EV and KP in rakata rather than BH. It was a clear learning curve. That doesn't exist for new raiders. New raiders generally already generally have some rakata or blackhole gear from dailies. They usually join raids with people who are already experieced. So, for them, it is soooo much easier to clear the first few raids that they dont need to learn their class well. The first time they have to actually play well is when they do EC HM, but it is simply too hard compared to everything they've done to date.
My choice at the moment in guild is to either only take the best players to EC/TFB HM and thus alienate my other raiders or take less well played raiders and accept the fact that we're gonna wipe all night and waste everybodies time. I'm in a lose/lose position at the moment because there doesn't exist a raid in which to train well-geared-but-under-experieced raiders.
Put them on EC HM? For campaign gear? You have to start to train them somewhere m8 and you and them have to accept they will wipe for 1-2 weeks till they learn what they have to do.
But were fleeing from the subject here. I think the difficulty mode presented to us on EC HM and TFB HM is pretty well made, specially on TFB HM.
But when you go to TFB HM and just have on the 1st boss, after you down him and you see for yourself that only 1 single piece of gear drops and it aint even from the new set, it just takes away all the urge to go and kill it again next week.
This isnt an incentive to peeps man, sure, killing bosses is an award on itself but its an emotional award not a material award, killing bosses MUST give you enough material awards to keep the urge to put your guildies in operation A, B or C, take out their loot numbers and ull see where the progression raiding guilds will start going, plainly because they will start loosing hardcore players around thus not having enough numbers to keep doing the new ops with this new philosophy.
1st boss on TFB HM deserve at least 1 dread guard set piece token and a hazmat piece. I can live with only 2 loot items but surelly as hell cant live in SWTOR TFB HM with 1 single loot drop. Thats just BS man.
Reguarding going in to farm EC NM excuse when it comes out, thats just again a lot of bull...
So BW is telling us to in order to grab dread guard set pieces that drop in the new content operation and that peeps are happy and excited to explore, they instead say to us that we need to go to EC NM in order to have more gear droppings?? So were supposed to go and farm again a place that weve been farming for over 2-3 months allready?? To complement the lack of loot numbers on the new one?? It doesnt add up man. I knew this was their intention but i surelly didnt know that i would be forced to do that. Going there cause i want to clear NM and going there cause i must complement the loot numbers from TFB HM are waaay different things.
Not to mention tha NM's should have a linear and progressive loot table from the HM of the current content.
If they had in the past made with EC HM for example, instead of Campaign dropping there, they putted Black hole as a gear with set bonus and on NM we would have campaign as it is right now, we would have that linear path.
Now on TFB they should have putted Hazmat as a set bonus gear for HM, with token drops and when NM mode camed out they would put the dread guard set. This is how things should have been done from the beginning not this mumbo jumbo of going back and going forward crap to farm content thats farmed for over 2-3 months now.
Operations should be made complete since their release with all the 3 difficulty modes available, with distinct sets of gear for each mode of difficulty.
I mean we were all having the " YAAYYYY" feeling when the boss went down and than we all went to the "What tha..?? Bleehhh...This must be a bug" feeling after seeing the loot, the loot numbers are really a turn off atm for TFB HM.
For me this is what SWTOR should have been from the beginning reguarding loot tables for an 8 man operation:
EV/KP SM - 2xTionese tokens
EV/KP HM - 2xColumi tokens
EV/KP NM - 2xRakata tokens
EC SM - 2xRakata tokens
EC HM - 2xBlack hole tokens
EC NM - 2xCampaign tokens (w/ increased item rating from what is now)
TFB SM - 2xCampaign tokens
TFB HM - 2xHazmat tokens
TFB NM - 2xDreadguard tokens (w/ increased item rating from what is now)
This will make casuals and hardcore players alike have ambitions to keep going for the next level of difficulty. It will also give casual/social players a chance to get more or less toe to toe with hardcore peeps in terms of gear. Also throw some bones on crafting gear that its at least HM equivalent, i aint saying to craft the exact same gear from HM's but some sort of equivalent gear that is on the current content HM.