View Single Post

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
07.27.2012 , 08:11 PM | #523
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
It isn't reality. It's an interactive game set in a galaxy-wide community in a different 'reality' to ours. It's fiction. People who claim it's 'not realistic' for their NPC, available to their male JK, to also be available to someone else's female JK is looking at metaplot - cross-dimensional metaplot. To put it in a DA2 way, Hawke is neither a time traveller nor a cross-dimensional acrobat. What is happening to one Hawke is not happening to another.

Similarly, the experiences of different SWTOR PCs are going to be inherently different. If you look at the matter from the PC level it makes no difference if all your companions can be romanced by one gender, the other gender or both.
You touch on this point of my again later on, so I'll just briefly comment here. One could write a story that has no attachment to reality at all, but no one would read it... Or if they did, they might find it very difficult to comprehend.

Quote:
Correction: a bisexual person is not the same orientation as a gay or straight person. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not claiming bisexuals are inherently different in ways other than orientation.
Quite right. That is what I meant. You could even take it to its extreme conclusion and say that one person is not the same as another person - people all see and experience the world from their own perspective, and since we're all unique, our own perspectives are so too.

Here's an example - If a bisexual woman is involved with a man, she's still attracted to other women. However, a straight woman (also involved with a man) wouldn't be attracted to other women, and might behave quite differently around a woman who flirts with her than the bisexual - even if both are monogamous (because people have different levels of what sort of behavior is acceptable in a relationship, of course).

So what I am saying with that is that you can't write a bisexual person in the same way as you'd write a straight person or a lesbian/gay person (nor can you write a lesbian/gay person the same way you'd write straight or bisexual people, nor can you write a straight person the same way you'd write bisexual or gay/lesbian people). The fact of their sexual orientation will make them react differently in the same set of circumstances.

This is where PCsexual characters tend to fall down. They don't behave like any particular sexual orientation, they only ever seem to be attracted to the PC. If they have experienced other relationships in the past, the ones that come up tend to be heterosexual, or they only come up with the specific orientation (for example, Isabela's past relationship with Zevran comes up at some point in conversation, Ander's past relationship with Karl only comes up with a male Hawke). Note, though, I said "tend to be". This is not the way it works all the time (ie Leliana's relationship with Marjolaine, comes up with both genders in the course of the romance - however it is left open to interpretation exactly what the relationship between them was).


Quote:
Another correction: the Star Wars universe has never claimed anything about the sexualities of the majority of the population. We've seen depictions almost (almost) solely of heterosexual relationships, yes, but that only leads us to assume the majority of the Star Wars universe is heterosexual. Until an official statement comes out to the effect we cannot know whether the relationships we've seen are indicative of the setting or whether it's indicative of them attempting to sell their product in a world of primarily heterosexual humans.
Very true. Though I will say that the one or two exceptions both occur in EU (in a game and novels) and not in top level canon for the Star Wars universe. The main SW universe has been purely heterosexual (and very tamely so too).

Reality would suggest that there are non-heterosexual people in the SW universe, and probably even creatures and beings who don't fall into our neat categories of sexual orientation and gender expression (aliens who have no sexes, for example, or who have more than two sexes) - but this reality thing... lets not bother with that, right? It is fiction, after all. (Sorry, I had to... I meant it as a light hearted tease, not to be insulting or anything - but you can't argue against reality on the one hand, then for it on the other. Besides which, an argument against reality could be used to justify no homosexuals just as much as it could be used to justify all bisexuals.)

Quote:
I think it's silly too, and yes, it's going to happen - just like there are people (a minority) rampantly declaring that romances shouldn't be in the game at all. What breaks immersion for one person doesn't for another - again, this is the player's business and nothing anyone but they can control. I don't necessarily see it as being any kind of indicator of bad writing (which will break immersion for most people on its own, but even then doesn't always; see Twilight).
I am not saying that they should cater to every individual player's whims (because that just wouldn't work). I really only mention this because it is a factor that Bioware should take into account when writing characters. They need to be careful to write the characters in such a way as to be realistic and relatable, and that means taking into account whether or not their writing can overcome some people's inability to overlook the meta aspects of PCsexual LIs.


Quote:
But they didn't say 'That isn't always writing; that [often isn't[/i] good storytelling'. Me, I know that's what they were talking about at the Summit and I still disagree. Anything can be written well or poorly. They summarily dismissed a viable option based on a belief that it's never good storytelling, never writing, and I feel I must disagree with them.
Well I agree with them in principle. If you're going to write the same character as being attracted to PCs of both genders, then unless you're writing them from the ground up as bisexual, you have to effectively write two separate characters. Lesbian Kira won't behave the same way as straight Kira, there will be differences both subtle and obvious - they will have slightly different backgrounds, because they would have had different prior relationships (of both the romantic and non-romantic kind), therefore different experiences, and therefore they'd be different people (with some similarities, of course, but nurture does effect who we are as much as nature). If you don't do this, if you just change the pronouns in the romance? That's bad writing and bad character design.

Quote:
Wow. Lame. I really liked that she was out of reach of my manShep.
Most of them react rather defensively when you tell them no too, no matter how polite you are about it.

Quote:
I agree a level of humanity is required for players to relate to the characters. Definitely a good point. But I don't think that proportions of sexual preferences within the galaxy-wide community need to be similar to our world's, not at all. If someone breaks immersion because there's more bisexuals than heterosexuals then they're not looking into the world very deeply at all.
Of course not. I'd rather see a more concentrated number of bisexuals and characters with individual sexual orientations than an entire cast of PCsexuals, though.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.