Right now I am torn between annihilation and rage. I want to improve my survivability, yet I am always a sucker for AoE damage. I have have to see how the AoE damage plays out in WZ. In PvE it is insane at the lower levels. It pretty much drops normal and weak mobs with one use.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. It will help me decide how I am going to respec.

I have found that testing things out does not work for me, at least until around level 40. Only then do I have enough tools. But I also hate respecing. I would like to get things how I will like that asap. I do not care about leveling. All I do is class quests and then wz. I can only do world quests a couple of times before I am sick of them. (I really miss old mmorpgs where there were dungeons to just kill through. I am sick of quest grinding in mmos.) So I am much more concerned with the overall play style of each one so I can decide which ones to put points into as I am leveling in WZ so that I am used to it when I get to 50.

I am leveling up and trying to figure out what spec works best for me. I am currently Carnage, but find myself dying easily (but then again I am new to the class.) I just wanted to see what people saw as the benefits/drawbacks/play styles of each of the 3 specs.

Like so many others I am trying to decide between these two. I have a few questions I hope people can answer: 1. Which of these, if any, gets a taunt ability 2. What WZ are each better at, e.g. I have read Juggs are good at Hutt Ball because they can easily score 3. How is the Mara survivability with the latest patches 4. How do they compare in CC 5. Do they both get guard? 6. I have read that Mara have a lot more tools to use than Juggs. What are they, and how useful are they in WZ?

Agree, but I think being able to get your items to "match" the chest piece is the most they are going to do.

So there are two separate issues. First is the assumption, one I disagree with, that the higher tier items should be the ones most in demand; that these should be costlier to make; and that these should fetch the highest prices.The second point is that the new augment system someone how addresses these issues. However, both of these are wrong. 1. There is a reason to get 400 which is to craft other items besides orange. For example, a purple sniper rifle is better than the orange sniper rifle with level equivalent purple mods. Not to mention it is simply cheaper than having to get purple mods. Further, there are tier 6 & 7 items that people do want. It is just false that there is no reason to skill up high. 2. The current system in no way resolves the problem, in fact it makes it worse. Some higher tier items are just as undesirable as that were before. It is worse now because you now have to purchase an MK-6 augment. So you end up spending more money to craft the item, but now have to charge even less to sell it. The most you get is the desirability of the MK-6 which takes 400. However, the result is a massive waste of mats for far less profit. Moreover, if you want to suggest that getting to 400 is worth it just for 1 item, then the same could be true for crafting skills pre-1.3 as well. The main issue is orange armor, there is no way that the current augment system makes higher tier orange armor more desirable or better than lower tier. What you should be concerned with is the overall profitability of trade skills. When you used to get 150k+ for items, and now is more like 50-60K with the item and augment, you see the massive loss in profits. To suggest that the current system is tantamount to saying that you like a system that is substantially less profitable. That just isn't rational.

The task of this thread is simple. It is about giving ideas to fix the current augment system. What I am going to put forth is not necessarily the best resolution to the problem, but I hope it will help others to put forth ideas to fix the current augment system. Setup There were multiple reasons for allowing augments to be added to any item in the game. The "best" reason had to do with equalizing the playing field so that everyone can have an augment. For whatever reason instead of just adding an augment slot to every item, they now have augment kits that will give augment slots to items. Perhaps this was meant to be a way to "help" crafters. If every item had an augment, then crits would be worthless and crafters would not make a lot of money. This way, crafters can make money by making augment kits. Current System The current system works along a 6 tier system: MK1-MK-6 These have level ranges. Kits are made in one of these tiers. They can then be added to items to give items augment slots. The second way items get augment slots is by crits while crafting. However, the augment slots are now limited based on its level. A lvl 19 item, for example, will have a MK-2 slot limiting it to low level augments. However, you can use a higher level kit to change the augment slot to a different MK slot for higher level augments. Crafting the augment kits requires two special materials. First are sliced tech parts. Most crafters don't have slicing and will need to have slicing on another character or buy from the GTN. The second crafting material comes via destroying items. This means you have to make items and then destroy them to get the materials needed to make an augment kit. I know at the Mk-6 takes 10 of these materials so this means making 10 lvl 49ish items and then destroying them just to get materials to make an augment kit. Problems with Current System 1. Tiered augment slots serve no rational purpose. There are two types of items, base and custom (orange). If you are going to use an orange item, you will be upgrading the slots. If you have an MK-2 slot, it makes no sense to upgrade to MK-3. Instead you will upgrade to a MK-6. Why? Because you won't have to upgrade the slot more than once. You can put level appropriate augments in the armor as needed. Upgrading base items is pointless. First, why bother adding augments pre-50 anyway? Assuming you do, are you going to be using the same sniper rifle at level 37 as you are at 27? So even if you put in an augment slot, you are not going to bother upgrading it. 2. Crits on items are now mostly worthless. Crits gave an augment slot which people would pay a high premium for. Now, there is no reason to pay for them. This is easily evident in orange armor. Suppose you craft a level 19 orange Heavy Armor head gear. If you crit, you get an MK-2 slot. The person buying the orange head gear now has to spend additional money on the MK-6. There is now no reason to purchase orange gear with an augment compared to without. In both bases you will still have to buy the MK-6 kit so there is no difference in value between cit vs not crit orange items. 3. Augment kits have far less profitability compared with crit items. (Not something non-crafters care about, but it is a problem if you are a crafter that liked making some extra money.) 4. Creating augment kits is needlessly annoying. We have to create 10 items just to destroy them for parts? How does that make sense? It wastes time, money, and resources. (Besides, it is just a dumb idea. Do coat manufacturers make 10 coats and destroy them just to create an extra pocket? Sure this is a game, but it should have some resemblance to rational practices in the world.) 5. Augments and augment kits create crafter dependence because of the requirement for tech parts from slcing. Possible Solutions There are various approaches to resolving the problems creating by the new system. Below are some samples of this can be done based on various approaches. A1. If you crit while creating the item, then the augment slot is MK-6. You can put any augment you want in it. This will eliminate the need to upgrade the slot and make crit items more desirable. A2. Non-crit items can only have level appropriate augment kits added to them. This will force people to purchase augment kits as they level. A3. Make the crafting material available by missions or from the crafting merchant. Making and destroying items is just pointless. A time/money sink can be added from either of these a way that is not annoying. The combination of the first two will make naturally crited items more desirable and MK kits less than 6 will now be worth using. If you are a lvl 50, then you can just use the MK-6 if you want. B1. Make it just one augment kit at 400 and put it in cybertech. B2. Add in a mission to get the needed materials in slicing. B3. Require that the crafting material in some way be difficult. Perhaps rare purples or lvl 6/7 crafting material. (This depends on how rare you want augments to be.) B4. Crits still get augment slots and they work as they did in pre-1.3. This system will remove the needles MK-1to MK-6 system. Currently, there is no real reason to use anything other than MK-6 because why are you augmenting non-orange gear pre lvl 50 anyway? This makes augment kits rarer and more expensive to produce. This will reduce the amount of augment kits available. This will push up the price for augment kits. It will also push up the desirability/price for crafted items that crit. Conclusion I am sure there are other and perhaps better solutions. However, the current system was poorly thought out and needs to be replaced by a sensible system ASAP. Any new system will be one that does at least two things: 1. Making naturally crit items more desirable for people to purchase than buying normal items and then using an augment kit. (This doesn't mean better, just that given the choice people will prefer buying the crit items over a normal item and a kit). 2. Make crafting augment kits less annoying. (This does not mean faster or cheaper, but it should not involve making items just to destroy them.)

The problem is that player confuse a sense of entitlement or desert with market transactions. The thought is that something entitles me to "more" because I am on an artificial scale now higher. However, markets do not reward people based on effort. Crafters make items that will sell for the highest amount and players purchase items they most want. I stopped crafting higher level gear because it would not sell. I could sell lower level oranges with augment slots from 150k+ in a few hours. It took 3 weeks to sell a high level piece of armor with an augment slot and I had to sell it for around 15k. Why? Because people like the lower level armor more. Even in cases where there weren't augment slots, many lower level items would fetch a higher price. The fact that having 400 in a skill being "unimportant" had nothing to do with augments, but with the fact that higher level crafted items were deemed to be worthless to the consumers.

You should never buy anything but a MK-6. You should also never put an augment slot on any pre-lvl 50 gear that is not orange. It would then run anywhere from 60k-100k to get both the augment slot and augment for an item. This is actually going to be substantially less than buying many orange crit items pre-1.3.

The task of this thread is simple. It is about giving ideas to fix the current augment system. What I am going to put forth is not necessarily the best resolution to the problem, but I hope it will help others to put forth ideas to fix the current augment system. Setup There were multiple reasons for allowing augments to be added to any item in the game. The "best" reason had to do with equalizing the playing field so that everyone can have an augment. For whatever reason instead of just adding an augment slot to every item, they now have augment kits that will give augment slots to items. Perhaps this was meant to be a way to "help" crafters. If every item had an augment, then crits would be worthless and crafters would not make a lot of money. This way, crafters can make money by making augment kits. Current System The current system works along a 6 tier system: MK1-MK-6 These have level ranges. Kits are made in one of these tiers. They can then be added to items to give items augment slots. The second way items get augment slots is by crits while crafting. However, the augment slots are now limited based on its level. A lvl 19 item, for example, will have a MK-2 slot limiting it to low level augments. However, you can use a higher level kit to change the augment slot to a different MK slot for higher level augments. Crafting the augment kits requires two special materials. First are sliced tech parts. Most crafters don't have slicing and will need to have slicing on another character or buy from the GTN. The second crafting material comes via destroying items. This means you have to make items and then destroy them to get the materials needed to make an augment kit. I know at the Mk-6 takes 10 of these materials so this means making 10 lvl 49ish items and then destroying them just to get materials to make an augment kit. Problems with Current System 1. Tiered augment slots serve no rational purpose. There are two types of items, base and custom (orange). If you are going to use an orange item, you will be upgrading the slots. If you have an MK-2 slot, it makes no sense to upgrade to MK-3. Instead you will upgrade to a MK-6. Why? Because you won't have to upgrade the slot more than once. You can put level appropriate augments in the armor as needed. Upgrading base items is pointless. First, why bother adding augments pre-50 anyway? Assuming you do, are you going to be using the same sniper rifle at level 37 as you are at 27? So even if you put in an augment slot, you are not going to bother upgrading it. 2. Crits on items are now mostly worthless. Crits gave an augment slot which people would pay a high premium for. Now, there is no reason to pay for them. This is easily evident in orange armor. Suppose you craft a level 19 orange Heavy Armor head gear. If you crit, you get an MK-2 slot. The person buying the orange head gear now has to spend additional money on the MK-6. There is now no reason to purchase orange gear with an augment compared to without. In both bases you will still have to buy the MK-6 kit so there is no difference in value between cit vs not crit orange items. 3. Augment kits have far less profitability compared with crit items. (Not something non-crafters care about, but it is a problem if you are a crafter that liked making some extra money.) 4. Creating augment kits is needlessly annoying. We have to create 10 items just to destroy them for parts? How does that make sense? It wastes time, money, and resources. (Besides, it is just a dumb idea. Do coat manufacturers make 10 coats and destroy them just to create an extra pocket? Sure this is a game, but it should have some resemblance to rational practices in the world.) 5. Augments and augment kits create crafter dependence because of the requirement for tech parts from slcing. Possible Solutions There are various approaches to resolving the problems creating by the new system. Below are some samples of this can be done based on various approaches. A1. If you crit while creating the item, then the augment slot is MK-6. You can put any augment you want in it. This will eliminate the need to upgrade the slot and make crit items more desirable. A2. Non-crit items can only have level appropriate augment kits added to them. This will force people to purchase augment kits as they level. A3. Make the crafting material available by missions or from the crafting merchant. Making and destroying items is just pointless. A time/money sink can be added from either of these a way that is not annoying. The combination of the first two will make naturally crited items more desirable and MK kits less than 6 will now be worth using. If you are a lvl 50, then you can just use the MK-6 if you want. B1. Make it just one augment kit at 400 and put it in cybertech. B2. Add in a mission to get the needed materials in slicing. B3. Require that the crafting material in some way be difficult. Perhaps rare purples or lvl 6/7 crafting material. (This depends on how rare you want augments to be.) B4. Crits still get augment slots and they work as they did in pre-1.3. This system will remove the needles MK-1to MK-6 system. Currently, there is no real reason to use anything other than MK-6 because why are you augmenting non-orange gear pre lvl 50 anyway? This makes augment kits rarer and more expensive to produce. This will reduce the amount of augment kits available. This will push up the price for augment kits. It will also push up the desirability/price for crafted items that crit. Conclusion I am sure there are other and perhaps better solutions. However, the current system was poorly thought out and needs to be replaced by a sensible system ASAP. Any new system will be one that does at least two things: 1. Making naturally crit items more desirable for people to purchase than buying normal items and then using an augment kit. (This doesn't mean better, just that given the choice people will prefer buying the crit items over a normal item and a kit). 2. Make crafting augment kits less annoying. (This does not mean faster or cheaper, but it should not involve making items just to destroy them.)

Not for orange gear. Orange gear, in reality, doesn't have levels. Yes, there are arbitrarily defined levels given to them, but they serve no purpose other than to restrict a particular look to a particular level or above. If you get orange armor at a low level and want to keep you, you now have to use a MK-6 to upgrade. Orange gear should just be an MK-6 slot and leave it at that. If you put in a lvl 49 mod, then it becomes a lvl 49 item. There are far better options they could have done besides the current system.

The Myth of Work In every game that involves crafting, inevitability someone either happy or unhappy with a chance will invoke the concept that something isn't supposed to be easy, it is supposed to be work. Now I could rehash the same old debates in other games about how this is a game and not work, etc. But instead, I will burst the myth that the augment system is, or was intended to be "work." 1. Previous system require remakes of items to get augment slots. Your orange armor could not be RE and was often worth little compared with items with augments slots. One of the reasons you now have augment kits is to make things easier. Before, it took time, money, luck, etc. Now, anyone can get an augment in an item. This is making things easier, faster, and more available to people. So, if the argument is that we do not want an easy give me item, then you should be against the addition of augment slots to the game because that is what they are - an easy give me item. 2. Making augment kits is not work, or making it difficult, etc. Making augment slots is annoying. There is a difference. In games in the past, you could spend hours or days trying to get the item you want. You, the player, had to actually craft them. You couldn't walk off with your character and do something else. In SWTOR, your crew does it. So the idea that somehow having my crew go do crafting is "work" or "hard" in any way is laughable. The system is designed to not be work. What the augment kit system is, is annoying. I have to craft pointless items, RE them, go to the GTN to buy slicing materials, just to make an augment kit. What you can do is add a crafting mission that takes just as long as the hassle it is to make and RE items and it would serve the exact same purpose, but be less annoying. 3. Other slots are not treated the same way as augment slots. If we require you to upgrade the augment slots - not just the augments - then why not require we upgrade every other slot? Why not have armor kits, enchantment kits, barrel kits, color crystal kits, etc? The reasoning that you have to upgrade the slots for augments is completely lacking. Why should people be required to both upgrade the slot and the augment when others don't? If the argument is that augment slots need to be "special" or require "effort" or "work," etc. then you should not have put in a system where you can add augment slots to anything. If people are making money off of selling augments, this would still be true if there was a different and better augment system in place. Allowing crit orange items to have augment slots that do not need upgrading would have the same benefit to selling augments as requiring people to purchase augment kits. What you want are more slots in the game. How annoying they are to get is a different issue. The current system has once again been bad for crafters. You went from where you could spend a few thousand on materials and make a few hundred thousand on the GTN. Now, you have a system that has destroyed the value of criting on an item while crafting. Further, the amount of profit on augment kits is minimal. As people have shown, you are better off selling the materials than you are at crafting the kits. While I like the idea of adding augment slots to my orange armor to make it better, especially at level 50, it comes with a cost. The more available something is, the less you can charge for it. Thus a tradeoff has been made between what is good for people who enjoying profiting from crafting and the larger player base that feels the need to have the top items. However, the current augment system is horrible because it has added insult to injury by making criting an orange to be pointless. For a purchaser, there is no difference between an orange with or without an augment slot because they will still have to buy a MK-6 kit (you are just dumb to do otherwise in orange gear). EDIT: Just to clarify, I am not against the idea of adding augments to items that were not crafted with an augment slot. I am against how the current system has been designed/implemented. There are better systems that could be put in place that would preserve profitability in crafting as well as reduce the annoyance of the MK augment system.

I find the current augmentation system to be one of the worst crafting decisions in any game I have played. 1. MK augment system is with levels is a poor idea. Now, augments can be added to any item. However, one important place it is used is with orange armor. The nice thing about orange armor is that it levels with you. The current MK system means that whether or not I crit on an item, I will have to use a MK-6 to create a useful slot. It has destroyed the value of much of the orange crafted items that you crit on. People are just going to have to buy a MK-6 kit anyway, so what does it matter that you got a crit? 2. Making augment kits is poorly thought out. Unless I am missing something, here is what I have to do to make a kit. First, I need to craft items. Then I need to destroy those items to get materials. I then need to get crafting material from slicing. This adds in crater dependence (I craft on multiple characters, but this is annoying. I then get to waste time making the augment kit. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the crafting material purchasable or gained via missions? That would create a money sink. Honestly, what developer thought it was a good idea to make you destroy items for crafting material? Please move that person to another department or out of the game completely. 3. Upgrading augment slots binds the item to you. This is also a bad idea. I went from being able to make money by crafting because of crits, to not being able to make any money. Between my crits being pointless and there is little profitability on making augments slot on my server (and significantly more annoying than crafting a crit. Making money is nice, but I really did this to equip my own characters. It is now so much more of a pain than before. The easiest suggestion, and this has been mentioned before, is that if you crit and get an augment slot it is MK-6. That will help crafters who crit and the people who buy the items. Second, redo the recipes for augment kits so that I don't have to make items just to destroy them.

The problem that I see is that people with the same analysis don't realize they have the same point.: People quit because they are bored/finished of the content. Further, that this is the product of game design. The OP is correct in that following WoW has "empirically" been demonstrated to be faulty game design for every other game. Players want and need content to play. Some players can play the content multiple times. Other players take a long time to level and go through the content. Other players, however, can't stand repeating the concept so many times and have already done everything multiple times. If you look at pre-WoW games, they were a lot harder. I mean in EQ, you lost whole levels when you died and it took forever to earn those high levels. Once mobs were on you, they stayed on you. In DAOC, it took a long to reach max level as well. Then they added Master Levels which took any longer. Both games had other things that made it longer such as having to figure out the quest in EQ, or having to figure out master level content in DAOC. Now, such game designs, generally, kept all player types happy. The reason why is because everyone always had something to do. The problem is that some people want instant gratification. (This is where the whole hardcore/casual divide people think comes in.) Casuals want to be able to get everything with minimal effort. They want to keep up with the people that play 16 hours a day (or so it is claimed). If you design a game like that, then you make it easy to finish the content. Fundamentally, the problem is game design. The game should be designed such that players always have something enjoyable to do regardless of if they play 20 hours a week or 20 hours a day. This, however, will mean adding in "grinding" instead of quest content. It will mean making achieving goals take a lot longer. I think this is why people point out that games fail because it is not appealing to the hardcore gamer. By making content so fast and so solo friendly, it makes it so that everyone - even casual gamers - will finish things fairly quickly and eventually get bored. Sure, so called casual players may take longer to get there, but they will get there eventually. I don't really think there is much of a difference between the two camps. The only difference is the speed at which they reach the same conclusion.