Hi All just wanted to thank all the players (pub and imp) on the red eclipse for all the fun particularly in PVP over the last couple of years I am going to give ESO a try, although I hope to pop back to SWTOR every now and then as a FTP. I also wanted to give my view of what I believe were the successes/failures and just plain wrongs of this game, just in case any future MMO's happen to read these forums and take note. The Good (Successes) - At its best, and on a number of occasions the pvp in this game was the best I have ever played. - Jumping on 4 enemies for the first time in hutball as they cross the firepit and stunning them to save a score was priceless - Watching some jump and accidently intercept the ball in hutball also priceless. - Playing in a totally random pug match against lesser gear players who won because they played as a team. - Illum open world pvp at the beginning , also priceless - best character combat animations ever, never been as scared by pixels before as my first time being ganked by a Shadow in my early days. The Bad (Failures) - Cross server warzones should have been available from launch - Class balancing should have been better from the start. As someone who played a Merc as his main since launch there were times when it was very frustrating, however I loved the way the Merc played. -- CC in this game at times was terribad, and as for Resolve I still can't understand how it works some times and not others The Ugly (just wrong and had a detrimental impact on the game for me) - Should have been a solo only queue from launch where new pvp players could cut their teeth and casual players could go for a relaxing game of pvp. This in my opinion would have increased the numbers in the pvp community and so in effect also increased the number of ranked teams. Strange as it may sound but not everyone thinks that the Ranked slug it out matches are fun, I would much rather a totally random pug match where literally anything can happen. - Number of patch issues in this game was just un-acceptable, we had the same issues cropping up after every patch. - Relic exploits should just not have happened. As a Merc when Arena came out I was enjoying the challenge but was unaware of the absorb relic exploit when it came out and just couldn't understand why I was suddenly totally in-effective in Arena's. Shadows for instance with the absorb relic could open up on my merc from stealth and then have virtually 12 seconds of "god mode" due to relic and shroud that meant there was very little you could do to survive if you didn't have the relic, and basically meant which ever team had the most players using the exploit would automatically win. - Lack of PVP content was also very bad, and some of the decisions, for instance to remove 8v8 ranked when there was a community who enjoyed it was poor. Don't get me wrong I found ranked boring as every match was virtually the same but I could understand why some people enjoyed it and enjoyed it myself if I was "in the mood" - Matchmaking in Arena's and WZ's - this has me divided in what I think should have happened. On the one hand I believe there should have been a totally separate and random Solo only queue (virtually guaranteed 50/50 win to loss rate for the new pvp people and less serious and skilled people) however for group and Ranked matches I believe that match making needed to be a lot better than it currently is, however this needed to be in place right from launch and coupled with cross server queues. That's my 2 pennies worth and if anyone does read it who is looking to set up a new MMO, then you can get virtually all you need to know on how to set up a decent pvp environment from these forums or similar ones in other MMO's.

Also don't underestimate the difference having the four companions types maxed out to lvl3 can make to your stats and also having all the available datacrons. one of the biggest ways to nerf yourself is to not have all available buffs when you enter a fight so if you can't self buff all the class buffs you will be at a big disadvantage both because of the buffs and the bonus's to surge/accuracy/etc....

Agreed the Op or Sin in this situation has the upper hand but that is by design and why they have terribad defences. I also play Sorc and in the situation you describe, as long as I have myself positioned close enough to the node then I will wait until the last possible moment (I will already have called for help because I have this typed in chat ready to press the enter key) when the stealther is just about to cap the node and end my bubble with my hard 4 sec stun on him, followed by an instant dot (so he can't easily get back into stealth) and then basically run for cover. You really have to watch Sin's at this point as they can charge after you or cast the long cc, but if you make it to cover then its basically keep hiding, stunning , slowing until help arrives. A good Op or Sin will get me more than likely anyway, but that's as it should be since neither Sin's nor concealment ops are the best class for the 6v6 mega fights that usually happen at mid so what would be the point in playing one if they didn't have a better than average chance of solo capping a defended node? It may be just that my toons have full min/maxed Obroan but I don't find concealment Ops overpowered unless they are in the hands of a very skilled player and in this case it doesn't really matter what class the player is playing, and is as it should be. I usually try and be sneaky if I come up against a skilled player which as a pyro Merc is easy and fun, even the best players will struggle, if you catch them in the open and use explosive dart, fusion missile, thermal detonator, incendary missile, Electronet and a couple of rapid shots just to make sure combustable gas cylinder procs, and then duck behind cover.

Nice vid Snave, very entertaining I play on the same server as Snave and have been destroyed by him on many occasion's I don't think concealment agents are over powered at the moment they are just doing what they are designed to do. As I play a pyro Merc I know that if I am caught in the open by a concealment agent (or a Sin for that matter) then the fight is heavily in their favour, but the fact is even against Snave I have a chance if I have CD's available (electronet in particular), whilst if I don't then I am pretty much dead meat. If on the other hand I get the drop on a agent or Sin then the outcome is pretty much in my favour even against skilled players so the fight can be pretty much decided on what you do when a stealth opens up on you. If you are a Sorc and guarding a node then your finger should be hovering over the indestructible bubble button, if you are a Merc then it should be over Jet boost/stun or hydraulic overrides. Most people forget when they are guarding a node that they are not there to kill but to stop the enemy from capping so running away, stunning/slowing etc is a much better tactic than trying to kill the stealthier and then hoping your teammates arrive before you die. Again as a Pyro Merc (I also play Madness Sorc/lethality Op/Pyro PT/Anni Mara/Jug semi dps Tank) I find SIn's with their openers and that dam cloak of invulnerability much harder to deal with than Concealment Agents. The specs and classes that struggle when opened up on by an Op or Sin are the same specs classes that will destroy the Op's and Sin's if they open on them from range, so fair's fair I think. As to people in PVE gear, my large hits on my pyro Merc are in the region of 5-7k, but I was gobsmacked the other day when I hit, I think it was a sorc with 35k health for 10.5k!!! No idea what the guy must of been wearing as it happened to fast and I was in the middle of a large fight so couldn't stop to investigate. I didn't even think it was possible to get over 10k as a pyro Merc lol.

I play a Merc and mainly do reg warezones and solo ranked, my Merc is an Elite warlord and is usually top or very close to the top on damage particularly in reg warezones. Playing a Merc, or other ranged dps is very different to playing melee classes and can be very effective if you take the time to position yourself correctly, i.e. close to cover. I play pyro Merc, mainly because I find it has better survivability that arsenal Merc and as merc's are often focused and seen as an easy kill in solo ranked this can be very important. I usually open up with all my instant dots on the designated target, fusion missile (making use of the instant cast ability and free heat cast ability) together with incendiary missile, thermal detonator, explosive dart, rapid shots (to get combustable gas cylinder to proc if it hasn't already) and I will also try to get a rail shot off somewhere in this if I am able. If you can do the above and then duck behind cover you will find that if someone is trying to get to you by the time they actually do get to you they have lost more than half their health. If they do jump or manage to get to you then you can jet boost them away and use electronet on them, hit hydraulic override and just rapid shot them to finish them off. In reg warezones a lot of players assume a merc is going to be Arsenal and are looking for an interrupt or to push/knock you. For a pyro Merc (with the right talent) all this does is give you a free 8 heat back. In a particularly boring Alderaan 8 man match last week, I was teamed with a 4 man premade on my team and the opposition also had a 4 man premade, with 2 excellent healers on my team and 3 excellent healers on the other team. Neither team could cap mid for the whole game and the opposition team worked out that I was doing a lot of damage and so were constantly knocking me back and trying to stun me. I had virtually unlimited heat and managed to do 1.69 million in damage even chased down one of there healers, and a dps who tried to make a run for our side node, giving me 2 solo kills in a match where it was very difficult to kill anything. The next on damage was on there team at 1 million whilst on our team the next on damage was 670k. My point is there are classes that can kick out much better dps given the right circumstances, but a merc needs to be "sneaky" and position themselves so that they have escape routes or can knock an enemy into a pit or off a catwalk, and just surviving as a merc can win your team the game (in 4v4) by tieing up dps while the rest of your team kills the opposition healer or focuses down one of their dps. 4v4 (especially if there are no healers) can often be decided by which of the focused players manages to survive the focus the longest.

You are correct in what you say mate, for YOU to enjoy this game everyone should play the way you describe and if this happened a large number of people would be very happy with this game and enjoy every match they played. I would be happy some of the time as I also enjoy the matches you describe, however on other occaisions (maybe when on a new lvl 55 alt or one of my less geared alts) I would rather play in a match that is less structured and my mistakes mean less in the overall outcome of the match. equally there is another large number of people who aren't as skillfull/geared/driven who also enjoy this game but instead of the competitive matches would prefer a more relaxed or less regimented game where mistakes happen but are not so important to the final outcome of the match, and where you can learn the skills of a new alt or class. The example you describe for chess is correct but if you look at football (soccer) when William Web Ellis decided to pick up the football and run with it the game of Rugby was invented. I for one enjoy both types of match in swotor depending on my mood and circumstance, however I would like to have more control over when I play each type of game and at the moment I have no control at all in the normal warezone queue.

I agree, in my opinion (and it is only my opinion) the ideal pvp queuing system would have the following : Solo only option (for new lvl 55s and people who want a less intense random composition match) Group plus solo option for groups of 2-8 plus any solo queuers who have chosen to "step up to the mark" and can be used to fill the gaps where groups are not available. You could for instance have an 8 man premade on one side in the groups option and 2 separate 4 man premades on the other side. Or you could just as easily have 2 separate 4 man premades on one side and a single 4 man premade on the other side together with solo queuers who have chosen to fill the gap.

I play a lot of PVP and have an Elite warlord, 2 x Warlords and 2 x conquer alts. There is no blame on either side in this argument from my experience, it is just down to a person's personal choice in what type of PVP they enjoy. There are broadly speaking two sets of people who enjoy pvp : 1. Those who like organised type pvp with each team having roughly even gear/skill levels and where they can group with friends or people they "trust" will play with at least a basic level of skill. This type of person enjoys the hard matches where one mistake can be the decider between victory or defeat, where playing well as a team is of most importance and winning is important in order to enhance the teams standing with their piers. 2. Those who like the totally random normal warzones, where different team compositions are the norm, better gear does not always ensure a win and where a single player can make a big difference to the outcome of the match. This type of person is more likely to play for fun with winning being an added bonus. The issue I believe is where the two broad types above meet in normal warzones, both can't have the match they most enjoy so either one or usually both end up not enjoying the experience.

by the sound of it you were very competitive, and I am sure that you are not the only one who has been competitive on a fresh lvl 55. My point was that most (and I can only back this up with my own experiences) would not be as competitive when teamed against a 4 or 8 man premade where most likely they all have full 67 augmented gear and the right tank/healer/dps combo. A solo only button would allow those not "ready" for a premade encounter to opt out, which would also have the knock on effect that those who are ready to face a premade and have the gear, will hopefully be teamed with similar geared solo people, thus segregating the players. If this effects queue times then every one still has the option to NOT toggle on the Solo only button which means queues would be exactly the same as now.

I also don't blame people for wanting to queue with friends or the 4 man premades for wanting to practice or get their comms, or just have fun, all of this should be possible and encouraged. To encourage new players to join in with this fun however they need to have an environment where they can practise and learn against similar geared/skilled players and grinding them into the ground is counter productive to encouraging new pvp players. I would favour a solo only button that allows new players to opt out of playing against groups.

Sorry Cycao but you are talking "in an ideal world", the majority of people who are fresh to 55 think they are the best thing since sliced bread and can't wait to get into a WZ to see how uber they are. Some people would call these players "bads" but I would call them in-experienced. As a geared player if you find yourself as the only 31k+ health player in a team of 8 with the rest having 27k or less and you can see you are up against a premade (even a 4 man) it can be pretty depressing. And yes you could say well get a group yourself but that wouldn't really of helped the 7 other poor lost soles on my team. Being in a team like the above against a premade a couple of times a night is not really an issue (as I have no issues with losing) but being in similar teams for match after match after match, because a couple of pvp guilds are queuing 4 man teams can get very stale fast.

Sorry but I have to disagree, a fresh lvl 55 who has just managed to save enough comms for a few pvp pieces won't get many group invites for pvp and needs to grind "somehow" the gear to be competitive. Its not fair on this player to be teamed against a premade, and its also not fair on his team mates who may have good gear already to be teamed with someone who will struggle to contribute to the team no matter how good a player they may be.

what a lot of people miss when considering how to make themselves more powerful for pvp is the following : 1. Having one of each main class, past story lvl 2 (I think) so that you can self buff is very important - you don't want to be running around in a warzone for half the time with only a couple of buffs as this will "gimp" you. 2. having companion affection maxed on each of the companion types is very important - extra surg,health etc... 3. having all gear augmented, even if you can only afford the blue augments 4. having all the datacrons, at least the ones that are relevant relevant to your class together with all the endurance ones. 5. having the right mods in your gear, such as the high power mods which you have to purchase separately as they don't usually come with the pvp gear. All of the above (and this a conservative guess) can account for an extra ~20%+ dps/hps in either pvp or pve.

If a soccer match worked in the same way that regular warezones work then a premade vs pug match would look like the following : Team A - lets call this team Premade Team B - lets call this team pug Team selection : Team A - can select whichever players they like from division 1,2,3 or 4. - they can select any type of player they want so 1 goalie, 4 defenders etc. Team B - will get random players from divisions 1,2,3 or 4. - will be assigned players at random so tuff luck if you end up with 11 goalies from division 4. Team Kit : Team A - will all have soccer boots, shin pads and shorts etc. Team B - may not all have soccer boots and most may have to play in jeans and hiking boots. Team Organisation : Team A - will get a manager who dictates the strategy and guides the team. Team B - will have to sort it out themselves and good luck if they don't all speak the same language. I wonder who would win a soccer match between the two teams?

Some of the frustration for me is not knowing if I am the only one queuing or if their are others queuing and we are just waiting to be matched. What would really help is an information screen that showed how many players are currently queuing for Solo ranked and would only need something like the following : Imperial players queuing for Solo ranked = 10 Imperial players currently in a Solo ranked match = 4 Empire players queuing for Solo ranked = 15 Empire players currently in a Solo ranked match = 12 At least if I could see this kind of information I could see if I am likely to get a match in the near future or if all the above are zero then I can go do something else. This kind of info would also be useful for normal warzones and probably group finder also.