I picked up my Shaman in WoW again recently. Even with X-server LFG I am still waiting 20-25 mins as DPS to get a group off peak. My realm is pretty full as well. Hate to think how long I'd have to wait without X-server

Taugrim does make a lot of sense and seems objective enough about things. My only input is to say that PvP should NEVER EVER be about gear as a primary focus. Player versus Player (Group PvP) should be more about Skill, Teamwork, Communication, Class Knowledge (of yours and your opponents), the ability to anticipate moves and good usage of class cooldowns. THEN GEAR should fit in somewhere around the last two; SKILL > TEAMWORK > COMMS > KNOWLEDGE > GEAR >ANTICIPATION > COOLDOWNS But in SWTOR its too far up on the list (as in TOP of); GEAR > SKILL > TEAMWORK > COMMS > KNOWLEDGE > ANTICIPATION > COOLDOWNS And that is just plain wrong. Award special weapons, the most coolest mounts ever, along with titles and what not for winning and progressing in PvP but armor should not have such a deciding and overiding factor in PvP like it does. balance the playing filed better and let teams duke it out uisng skill, comms, teamwork, etc, you know the things that matter in PvP.

To all the guys that say SWTOR was ready, no game ships fully ready, yada, yada, yada.... I think you're all being really blinkered about it. Maybe this is your first MMO, maybe your an MMO veteran that just doesn't care. The game was not ready feature-wise. I cannot argue the content was lacking as all MMO start with a content ceiling and it evolves from there. But feature-wise SWTOR was definitely very poor. I get the Dev's were working to a timetable with EA monkeys on their backs but the game was simply not ready when it shipped. Thats why the subscriber base is shockingly low. SWTOR should had taken 30% to 50% of players away from WoW but due to its lack of features (not content - the two are entirely seperate entities) the game has flopped. All the postive, success stories you hear from the Dev team is nothing more than lip service and playdown. Truth is they are totally disappointed about the loss of 400,000 subscribers from an already shockingly low playerbase. Here's my snippet from the 'Unsubscribers' thread. it kind of sums it all up;

Think this has become a cliche in the MMO world. WoW's populace was already rude, obnoxious, elitist, arrogant, abusive, and held a distinct lack of social ettiquette well before X-server grouping came in. X-Server grouping may have made things a little worse but not by any great margins that are being represented by some posters on MMO forums. Personally, I would welcome X-Server grouping. To the poster that said it was fun fighting the same players all the time in PvP because he got to 'know them'. Firstly I doubt he 'got to know them' beyond a /dances with emote and secondly, if its anything like my server you'll be fed up to the back teeth of idiots, afk'ers, Quitters and Defender Point/Medal grinders who treat warzones like solo death match arena's. I want to play with other people on my team from different servers just to dilute the amount of idiots I am forced to group with. Yeah its a lottery but one I'd be glad to take part in. Also and to a degree other players on the opposing team from different servers and not the same old, same old would add some variety. In short BW should create two options; Sign up for same server group or x-server group.

I unsubbed today. My guild has disbanded. It had been together for 3 years. I did not know any bigger fan of the game than our GM. He was first to go. I fell in battle today. I cannot be arsed to get back up an fight any more. A game dev cannot release an MMO in todays climate that does not match the feature-set other MMO's have and SWTOR feels like an unevolved 3+ year old game. How long must players wait to get the features that should be in the game today. Another 2 years? No thanks. I have many reasons for quitting. 6 of those are (in no particular order). No dual spec No raid and guild tools No Dungeon finder No equipment/gear change manager No spell/proc/ability alert ui element. Horrible PvP on all fronts. I could literally go on and on on the shortfalls this game has. It has let the SW community down dreadfully. I hope you guys that tough it out seriously get what you want and enjoy the game, but I see only doom and gloom and an ever declining playerbase fed up with the lack of ingame features and all the other things that have been mentioned on these forums ad-nauseum. SWTOR has failed. And that is a crying shame.

Wrong. And slightly taken out of context. Yes I just stood there. I defended nothing because nobody came to take it away from me. I was, hmmmm, on guard. Yes I was Guarding the node. Defending to me implies some kind of combat, beating back the trespassers. You dont [shouldn't] get anythign for merely guarding. Now if the enemy comes and I fight there, thats a whole new ball game. That is Defending. I did zero defending yet at the end came away with more medals, credits and coms then I sometimes get when I am healing but zerged constantly with no support from my team mates. I was stationery at my node from the start of the match. The other player with me left as soon as he capped, so I stayed and defended, you know out of team spirit and all that. Not because I wanted to grind Defender Point Medals. My comments were intended as slightly sarcastic. But the real thrust of my argument is that SWTOR PvP is seriously flawed in all aspects of it. Its become a right pigs dinner. Okay give a player something for 'Guarding' if thats whats intended but don't make it the free giveaway its become. Players don't co-ordinate, communicate, and are not inspired to try to win because its so damn easy to cap 1 node and then just camp it the rest of the match, go make a coffee, take a pee, check emails, while the medals, coms and creds keep rattling in. Do people actually get where I'm coming from now? I want PvP be great, I really do, but PvP in SWTOR is a shambles in its entirety.

Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. This is another nail in the coffin for SWTOR PvP. It is plain stupid to get that number of rewards for doing nothing. You know some matches I play as a healer or some I go on the skirmish and dont always get 6 medals. This is encouraging me to just cap 1 and camp the rest of the match for defender point medals. With the daft reward system, the TTK problem (which is huge), class imbalance, the insane number of knockbacks, mezzes and stuns that keep you from operating your character for far too long, the unfair class advantages some classes have in certain Warzones and the daft gear tiers, SWTOR PvP is the worst MMO PvP I have ever experienced. It needs some serious work.

But, but he's who backpedals. And clicks. Valor rank means absolutely nothing other than, "I take part in Warzones" The rank does not impart any skill or teamplay. It is not a measure of ones PvP prowess, period. Lethality snipers and operatives can easily turret spam and get high numbers ands lots of medals without actually contributing to the win for the team. Other poster said it all really.

Everything is too little too late. Everything. I love the game. But it shipped unfinished. It should have never been released in the state it was. When you are introducing a modern MMO in todays climate it has to have the tools and utilities that other games have. Do we have to wait 3-5 years for BW to patch this game to somewhere where it should be today? In no particular order; No raid tools. No guild tools. No dungeon finder. No dual spec. No gear swapping tools. No spell/proc alert tool or debuff watcher No combat log. No organised PvP. No macro's (not even the the very basic ones) No healer UI tools ( mouseover healing) The game SHOULD have shipped with all these things from the get-go. BW spent too much time on the voice-overs and 'single-player' story. Had they spent more time on developing everything on that list above I am alsmost certain their subscriber numbers would be double what they are now. Its the lack of those things that is drving away subscribers and its a crying shame. You cannot ship a game that takes you back in time at least 3+ years in terms of features, tools, and utilities in an MMO. You have to match the current crop of MMO features, tools and utlitities for cementing those strong foundations, then you build a strong MMO by delivering strong and appealing content. SWTOR shipped as a stripped down version of an MMO akin to something that may have been released 4 years ago because of its lack of tools and features. Current subscribers now have to wait for dual specs. They have to wait for better raid and guild tools. They have to wait for Dungeon Finder, which is next I know, but its still too late. They have to wait for everythign they should have now. How long do BW expect players to wait for tools and features that should be in the game TODAY? I would not call the launch a sucess at all. Sucess would be a steady growth in subscribers, even after you factor in the trialers and free-monthers who disappear back to their other distractions. This is why subscribers, who are the people that really wanted this game to work and be great, are the people that are deserting the game and the trend will continue. And its all because of the lack of features and tools. Shame on you BW.

Thanks guys for the [mostly] civil feedback. Just to answer a few questions my build is 33/3/5 at the moment (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MffrzGoRdsZ0cZG.1) but I do play about with it, sometimes opting for slightly less damage mitigation but more run speed by taking 3/3 Infiltrator. I have mixed feelings about that, preferring the max damage reduction/healing possible at the cost of poorer stealth/runspeed. I do not expect to take down a DPS 1v1 as a healer as someone suggested. What I do expect is with the current model of healing is to be able to stay up against ANY dps class 1v1. I am focussed the minute the gates open in PvP as a healer so I should be able to hold my own relatively easily (without being a complete klutz) against any lone DPS class. The second I get 2 or 3 dps on me then yes I expect to not survive for very long with my own team not helping with guards and peels. Some classes seem to be able to overcome my own spam self-healing considering the talents I take to boost healing/damage mitigation and my current level of Expertise. This is why i think some classes have either too much burst, too many counters or a combination of both. Do I play bad against these classes? Of course from time to time I will make mistakes, you know they crucified the last perfect person, but I feel I play pretty well in general - I do most of the things that have already been mentioned in this thread, but the moment I am a cooldown short thats it. Now in group PvP and minus cooldowns then of course I expect to be weaker, but I am talking about those 1 on 1 skirmishes where it becomes Healer v DPS. I would expect with the current healing model to be able to stay up 1v1 even without cooldowns, as long as I play intelligently. This is because PvP healers must be able to take some punishment in PvP as they are the No1 focus of any competitve PvP match. Against some classes it simply doesn't happen like that and my healing is overcome in 8-10 seconds. This does not mean there is no room for improvement because there is and I already break down my fights thinking, how could I have done that better? I just get the feeling from playing that in general some classes burst and ability to shut down a healer is a just a little too good. And spamming Surgical Probe sub 30% is okay and all but boy that 1.5s GCD feels like an eternity and most DPS know that if your are spamming SP sub 30% they have to shut you down so thats when the stun also comes. I will keep practicing though.

I use Warzone furniture to do exactly that - pillar humping, I think its called. I do slow them as well, but I end up slowed too so it makes no difference. I don't spam Diag Scan but I do fake cast to burn up interrupts, howerver I'll try that as extra insurance from now on, thanks. I even blow my relics for extra oomph when I getting nuked by one of these classes. I also blow my stun and vanish ability but dont seem to get it right as they seem to get back on me as I am running away or Assassins/Shadows will do an AoE thing that pops me right out again a split seconf after vanish (which is good play on their part I guess) I never backpedal btw, its strafe or run for me. These guys really hurt. Thanks for the tips.

Right, switched to healing on my Operative. I am used to healing in PvP coming from a Disc Priest in WoW (which I appreciate won't mean a lot to those who never have played it!) Anyway my Op has 1164 Expertise and full BM gear with 15040hp unbuffed, no Hero gear yet. In PvP against some classes as a healer I can stay up, might dip low but spam heals usually solves the problem during those intense moments where I feel the DPS is blowing cd's to nuke me down. I dispel whenever I need to and use my cooldowns whenever I need to. Now my take on PvP healers is they should be able to stay up against any class 1 on 1. Because if they didn't there would never be healers in PvP such is the focus they get. The problem I have is Assassins/Shadows, Sents/Mara's, and some Trooper/BH specs utterly destroy me 1 on 1 when I am starting with full health, cc breaker free, and defensive cooldowns up and ready. No matter what I do I cannot last more than 8-10 secs before they completely overcome my HoT's, healing and escape tools. What gives? Is the burst or damage of these classes too high? This is when I end up on those 1 v 1 fights when I am singled out and chased across the entire warzone. Its not spammage from 3 diferent players focusing me down - I dont expect to live more thn 5 secs when that happens. Or is it L2P on my part? Quite happy to concede that fact, but what can I do against these classes 1 on 1 when I do nothing but spam heal and try to stay alive? If the burst of these classes is too high with 1164 Expertise then PvP is really F***** UP. I even have damage reducing talents (-4% from Chem-resistant Inlays) and +9% to self healing (Survival Training 3/3) plus 15% more healing on top of that when a defensive cooldown is up (Med Shield 2/2). What can I do?

I've just been grinding Warzones the last 2 weeks on my second fave toon and I can tell you - could not be further than the truth. I will EMBRACE X-Server PvP because over 60% of the players on my server/faction are complete PvP muppets. No teamwork. No communication in chat. Quitters. No objectives followed. No watching each others backs or protecting their healers. For many of them every Warzone is a solo Death Match arena, nothing more. Most of them don't even know there is actually a ball in Hutball. Many of them dont know you can click the Encampment consoles in Novare Coast from 25 metres out (near enough) AND, the more that click the quicker you take the Encampment. They'd rather just pewpew and show off their "leet PvP skillzor" right at the emcampment and totally ignore the consoles. Just a couple of examples but every dedicated, competitive PvP'er knows exactly what I mean. Its for these reasons I'll embrace X-Server PvP. I am sick to the back teeth of PvP fail nabs that I cannot get away from on my own server, nor can I encourage them to play better (tried it, got abuse, gave up) so I'll welcome a bigger melting pot and hope these PvP fail nabs get diluted in the sheer scale of it all where I see much, much, much less of their ugly mugs ruining and spoiling my PvP. It will become a lottery no doubt but one that I welcome with open arms.

I never said it was OP. I am saying in Group PvP right now ranged classes can switch to a single target, be it melee or another ranged class with such speed and power and then burst that player down in around 4-5 seconds that Bioware need to balance arounf that kind of play, because esseentially thats what group PvP is - its never a fair fight of 3v3 for example (rarely anyway). And because classes like Marauders/Sents, Operatives/Scoundrels can be danagerous as soon as they pop within range of ranged DPS you will get 3-4 players focus fire that player down. That is just the nature of how ranged classes play in group PvP. Melee classes do not play like that, as we simply dont have the same speed to switch when players are spread all over the place, unless its tight knit zerg moment. I never said it was OP, but the numbers have to be balanced around that kind of gameplay. Basically TTK is way too short and needs boosting or we need way more HP on our PvP gear - at least 30% more I'd say just to make TTK slightly longer with the current burst and damage that players find themselves enduring right now even in the very best gear.

Thats not my experience. When I quit WoW late last year I was doing nothing but PvP. Even with X-server Battlegrounds I was seeing the same regular players all the time and doing a /dance with players on the opposite faction I went up against regularly. So, okay you can't talk to guys on the other team on other realms unless you use Battlenet friends but how many guys did you speak to on opposition in PvP on your own realm? Hint there was no Battlenet friends then. Did you log on your other account on a PvP realm to say, "hey mate that was a good fight you did there! /salute" Or where you on a PvE realm where you could (if I remember right) log onto your opposite faction alt, and then say "hi mate great fight that was /salute" I don't think so. Please elaborate on what you mean by *know* . You're blowing it completely out of proportion. If it disappears for you in SWTOR thats completely your own doing.