Several good thoughts/tips in here. And a few not all that good. If using the Watchman tree and having access to Overload saber, the stasis ability is really good vs. say 1 tough mob/gold/semi boss. Dump the stackable crit-burns/dots(= short timered Heal Over Timer) followed by stasis and you'll get this: - Fair amount of combined damage(several Damage Over Time abilites ticking, including stasis itself). - Gaining health. - Gaining focus. - Effectively hindering/stunning mob from do damage to you(getting you somewhat closer to next defensive pop).. - If using healer companion you gain a few seconds to have the comp heal you(and itself) as well. Solo PvE becomes notable easier with Sent/Mara, if using Stasis ever so often(in a somwhat wise fashion). That said, for the FUN of it, around level 37-40 I went Combat tree and while losing the self-healing, I combined: - 5% baseline defence. - 6% Defence from Saber Screen(up with a few seconds of dps'ing). - 10% Transcendence. - 12-18% Defence from augments and enhancements ... meaning that a few seconds into a fight I had about 23-28% "static" defence and with Transcendence that became 33-38% defence(often trying to pop this when the other defensive abilities were down - thus maintaining a almost steady "stream" if not THAT bad semi-tankish ability). I'm sure I had some relic to further increase the defence some additional 30 seconds. Not overly effective, but worked well enough for solo exping. Was fun though and allowed me to be more tankish than some real tank classes who either didn't have enough stats nor defensive abilites. Or/and who was yet to learn their class.

Spot on.

Yes, how bad wouldn't it be to have YET another movie with children/teenagers or/and young adults as the main characters? I don't know about you but that started to feel old a long time ago(pun ftw). Thus how terrible would it be to allow loved, classic and well known characters(as well as actors) to show the results of "all those years" of development of their personalities(+ more)? And more so over time within the movie(s) itself? Middle age as well as old characters. That way we might even get somewhat free of some of our RL times unhealthy focus. I've heard that GOOD experienced/elderly actors could be compared to old GOOD wine. It gets better with age(experience). While that might not hold true at all times, it do offer some intresting perspectives. Wouldn't you say? It might not be a new take on things in the genre, but for one I'd feel refreashed.

Did this Scoundrel have a lot of time to heal it's team m8s? Or/and did the Scoundrel do a lot of damage to you and your team m8s? Or just an excellent sprinter(roller)?

Good answer. While I see your points, and kinda agree with a few(or at least understand your perspective), I'm not all in agreement. I might or I might not try a half witty reply some other day, at a somewhat earlier hour. Bah... Ok about one of my points, was about you(and KBN) being a representive for those of us that don't like the removal of self heals, we're your people too, hehe(no matter your own opinions and beliefs). And I hope you'll speak up on our behalf as well. Thanks for nice answer. //DG

Well "remind" for me, indicates that it's already known. I'm not saying anything about KBN nor Xinika. Rather I'm telling some of my thoughts regarding the matter at hand. And since I perceived KBN having more of a focus on numbers and what we could call "static facts" - I felt like making my "voice" heard. I'm rather neutral regarding both KBN and Xinika. So don't worry, I'm not saying anyone of them "is that or is this" nor "does this & does that". I've myself been a class representative of a underdog class in another mmorpg(tank-melee-caster hybrid... of all things ) for several years and I know it's not a walk in the park(well, sometimes it just might be that, others times not as much - ups and downs). And not just in games, but in the world at large, one could argue that "numbers" and "facts" getting more and more focus in many places. For example, in schools, health care and even therapeuts of different kinds all too often have to "get the numbers right". It's often not a healthy way of doing and "fixing" those things(my job to be involved in matters such as that). Of course it shouldn't be removed. Maybe a good word or two in this context could be "good balance"(take both/all sides into consideration, more or less equal focus). Thus when I perceive(I don't have to be right, it's my experience of the posts I've read) such imbalance yet again - I felt I'd like to express some of my "fears", and remind KBN and Xinika of these things. As well as express my disappointed thoughts and feelings IF mentioned changes would take place. You happy with that answer Doulo, or would you like to get additional thoughs/information?

Sorry, my attempt at irony might not have been obvious(or just might be my phrasing of it, since english ain't my 1th language). I'll try make it more obvious next time. And no, I never asked to get ridd of self heals(but yeah, some people did that, in some manner).

Xinika, I'd like to remind you about you not only being a "class representative", but also a "representative of the People playing a certain class". I think you know the difference as well as the synergy. While I nor no one else, probably, have or even could get accurate numbers of the people thinking/feeling This or That. It could be seen as safe to assume that Quite many people play the class because of it's lore, because of it's own uniqueness(tank class with small amount of self healing and stealth), because of the feel of the class, because of the story(lots of healing)... and a few other things(like the heal relics, I kinda enjoy that bit, and so does several other people). ... thus one could argue that a representative would also take All these people(and their thoughts and feelings) into consideration. Don't you think? I'm not a cruncher of numbers, I'm rather a cruncher of minds(lol) and as you may already know... "feelings often enough, do not care about logic"(exists both good and bad sides/consequences because of this, thats another story though). Thus in this aspect you might have to be open about this/these perspective, as well as Also put the numbers aside, to a degree. Bioware have made this game, of course Bioware got the potential to "fix" the spikyness of Shadows/Assassins - while still letting the class keep the healing in the tank stance(as well as the proc X3 on demand heal). Surely it won't be something overly trivial. But quite possible within reason - yes, thats highly likely. Well... fixing it "here and now" probably ain't that much of a hassle, but I mean over time, as the class, gear and game evolves. Please consider my words.

KBN, I'd like to remind you about you not only being a "class representative", but also a "representative of the People playing a certain class". I think you know the difference as well as the synergy. While I nor no one else, probably, have or even could get accurate numbers of the people thinking/feeling This or That. It could be seen as safe to assume that Quite many people play the class because of it's lore, because of it's own uniqueness(tank class with small amount of self healing and stealth), because of the feel of the class, because of the story(lots of healing)... and a few other things(like the heal relics, I kinda enjoy that bit, and so does several other people). ... thus one could argue that a representative would also take All these people(and their thoughts and feelings) into consideration. Don't you think? I'm not a cruncher of numbers, I'm rather a cruncher of minds(lol) and as you may already know... "feelings often enough, do not care about logic"(exists both good and bad sides/consequences because of this, thats another story though). Thus in this aspect you might have to be open about this/these perspective, as well as Also put the numbers aside, to a degree. Bioware have made this game, of course Bioware got the potential to "fix" the spikyness of Shadows/Assassins - while still letting the class keep the healing in the tank stance(as well as the proc X3 on demand heal). Surely it won't be something overly trivial. But quite possible within reason - yes, thats highly likely. Well... fixing it "here and now" probably ain't that much of a hassle, but I mean over time, as the class, gear and game evolves. Please consider my words.

With a try at nice wording... It sux. I rather take the danger of being spiked to death and keep "my" self heals. Without it, it's a lot closer to the Guard/Jugg class. I'm one of those who "love" hybrid classes. If I play in a rather "normal relaxed" way, I'll do better with guard/jugg and van/pt - but when I really concentrate and focus 150%(actually mentally tough) ... well then "stuff" happens(wonderfull stuff, often enough). Obviously the loss of the self healing won't in itself change the whole class. But the FEEL of the whole class(Shadow/Assasin) would become something else, for me. Since I(as many other people) get notable attached to my main class and main character - such a "little" change might ruin the whole game experience for me. While it possibly ain't so, it sure feel like we got "what we deserved" - "you whiny little bunch... TAKE THIS!". I don't want to have a "normalized" and "streamlined" tank class/character as main class/character. //disappointed /EDIT Of course I'd like to keep the tank tree as is AND get some minor tweak to take place to reduce the spikyness. //EDIT 2 I'm mainly concerned with the passive stance heal, and somewhat less concerned about high-tank-tree-spec X3 proc and heal on demand.

With a try at nice wording... It sux. I rather take the danger of being spiked to death and keep "my" self heals. Without it, it's a lot closer to the Guard/Jugg class. I'm one of those who "love" hybrid classes. If I play in a rather "normal relaxed" way, I'll do better with guard/jugg and van/pt - but when I really concentrate and focus 150%(actually mentally tough) ... well then "stuff" happens(wonderfull stuff, often enough). Obviously the loss of the self healing won't in itself change the whole class. But the FEEL of the whole class(Shadow/Assasin) would become something else, for me. Since I(as many other people) get notable attached to my main class and main character - such a "little" change might ruin the whole game experience for me. While it possibly ain't so, it sure feel like we got "what we deserved" - "you whiny little bunch... TAKE THIS!". I don't want to have a "normalized" and "streamlined" tank class/character as main class/character. //disappointed /EDIT Of course I'd like to keep the tank tree as is AND get some minor tweak to take place to reduce the spikyness. //EDIT 2 I'm mainly concerned with the passive stance heal, and somewhat less concerned about high-tank-tree-spec X3 proc and heal on demand.

I find it a very easy class to solo with(no matter level). Thus most likely have to do with playstyle. ... in the end, go with what "You" find to be the most fun.

Had I been you, I'd react precisely as you just did. So I don't really blame you. I don't have to have "proof" - you're giving that away in most of your posts. But I have no ill will towards you, I'm just trying to "help" the other people in this thread(and that in turn, along the way... might help you).

It's quite understandable why he ain't view himself as a Troll. Also it's rather clear he won't be swayed by the different seemingly obvious logical arguments. To make it as clear as possible, as to why "this is" - one could view our(humans) thinking and understanding(about/regarding a crapload of different things/aras/situations) as the gap/difference between dimensions, explained by Carl Sagan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM (This is something that could be explained in the fields of psychology and neurology, which could be perceived to be my area, instead of theoretical physics, which is more of a little side interest - but the video with Carl Sagan and the perspective of theoretical physics explains it better and more believable that I could do in mere text) Simply put, it would seem he isn't able to percieve your straight forward, quite simple and obvious logic that you present before his very eyes - that is, not until he gets a deeper understanding of... a few Other things. Then... what to do? Well... IF you truly want him to start understanding, you'll have to take another kind of approach altogether(and NOT keep trying to bang logic against his mind). But yes, a internet forum might not be an optimal place for this(but, it might still be possible). Another note... One could argue that while this guy, quite often, "exist" one level/dimension "below" many of you folks, regarding the understanding of different levels of complexity(regarding different things). It would seem that this other person, Andryah(and a few other people in this forum), tend to be one level/dimension "above" quite a few, in some of the understanding. Although the understanding of the social and psychological impact that kind of reasoning/thinking that follows, seem not to be on par - thus alienating Andryah quite a bit. But this is something that happens most of us in one or another way(to a lesser degree). And we sometimes tend to be "below" and other times we seem to be "above". What could be percieved as being important "here" then, is to remember that "throwing" our own logic at each other, quite often won't yield any notable larger degree of understanding. Again, another kind of thinking/speaking/wording/action often have to take place. Regarding the people most close to us as well as strangers and all those in between. While numbers/parses indeed could be important, it's as important(or perhaps more important) to remember that even: " "true numbers", often have a potential of yielding large and quite treacherous lies "(just as several individuals in this thread already pointed out with their own wording).

On the contrary - It's the class that got the most potent (Sent/Mara might be somewhat of a contender with it's dot/burn "heal spec") self-heals in SWtor, out of the classes that got no real heal spec as a class. 100K + healing in WarZones ain't uncommon(but might not be the norm either). (Spec matters ofc, middle dps tree won't yield much healing)