OK the instant master strike comment was clearly a goof. No one was seriously suggesting it. We completely discounted it in like 2 posts. 2nd, all our suggestions beyond that have been towards ways to increase our damage a bit and bring in raid utility. Some armor pen, RNG changes, bleed increase, fixing the clunky rotation. We are suggesting things. These are not, "we want absolutely everything we are coming up with." This is, "here is a bunch of ideas, what do you like, what do you think?" Big difference. We are theory crafting for fun. At least I am. In reality they already told us all we are going to get in the Dev questions. They will be phasing them in. So it will be the root, no pve help but good for PvP. A bit lazy making us more like sent especially after tyhe changed the whole way sunder worked (boo I miss it every 3 secs). They said they would look at RNG. And they said they would change Enraged defense/not sure the guard name. That's all we are going to get at best anytime soon. This is all just fun discussion.

I disagree. Otherwise you waist your first proc. You should saber throw, leap, master strike, plasma brand, overhead slash. That way master strike will proc again.

Your right it currently only has PvP value and is worthless at that. But by building the stacks from bleed ticks not slows would make it viable in both. Ya they may never do that. But what the heck it's a cool idea. Putting it somewhere else may be better I just hate seeing completely worthless talents sitting there.

Pooled hatred/gather strength - 30% chance to proc 1 2 stacks on bleed ticks increasing the damage of Slash by 30 50% and reduces the rage cost by 1 for each stack. That would make it hit harder but not crazy (average 5 6k) and still cost a rage. This is just a suggestion feel free to expand on it. I don't want vigi to be a mele focus. I don't mind master strike being our core. We are spitballing. Lets not get so defensive. Bladestorm at best hits for 4.5 k so having a nice dispatch hardly makes us a focus copy. I don't understand the push back of making vigi as viable a spec ( but different) in PvP as focus. People have play style difference and I am for having every spec of every class viable in every aspect of the game. What is wrong with that? I also don't think vigi is trash in PvP. I'm just coming up with ideas like everybody.

Well having 2 10 meter attacks is great. Blade storm isn't random you just have to build the stacks (fine) and yes dispatch is random but the problem with it is not the randomness but the 20secs before it can happen again. As long as you apply your dots its a guaranteed proc. Having those ranged attacks helps with fight movement and is good when being kited. Honestly the more dispatch procs the better. We have a lot of useless talents in our tree and as others have suggested, since 2.0 our rotation and rage building has been clunky at best. Having something change with pooled hatred/gathering strength and having it build from bleed proc % is reliable and swings us away from master strike. Since vicious slash (sorry don't know guard version) is an unused ability, if it is strengthend and made free, by the time we get to the gap in our rotation there would be a free, hard hitting vicious slash that wouldn't eat rage. It's not a terrible idea.

The popularity of Force users has more to do with this is Star Wars. Everybody wants to be Vader. Not because they are actually favored.

I am way down for that. Give it an auto crit again and some damage buffs and move away from master strike would be nice. I also think in terms of an AOE auto crit of an unmitigated force damage is still stronger than dispatch. I don't know what it is called in vigilance ,perhaps gather strength, but pooled hatred I would like to see changed. I've thought about it and my thought was ,so it was useful in PvP And PvE, make it start to stack on a % chance from our bleeds. So now the every tick has a % chance to stack. With each stack it reduces the rage cost of Vicious slash/slash. Stacks 3 times so no rage cost. Increases the damage by 20 30 50%. It hits on average no crit for 2.5 3k making it hit for about 5 6 with a crit 8 9. Would make another good filler.

YAAAAWN. By that logic only Mara's should PvP dps. We are all stupider for reading your thread.

Wow that came out of left field. Some people loose their minds when you try to help people. I have never seen you claim to be the best at anything. Your just giving out what knowledge you have acquired through experience.

1. Master strike 2. Plasma brand 3. Overhead slash 4. With 2 stacks Blade storm 5. Dispatch That is the basic ability priority. You can swap Dispatch or Overhead slash once 55 and full talented because the damage between the 2 is close and with the proc you may want to do dispatch first. Never do bladestorm without the 2 stacks. That's the basic priority list.

Because it is pretty much everyone's favorite spec. It is the one we all want to play. They could remove the focus tree entirely in my opinion. It's boring and a dumb design with an insane Aoe explosion as it's main ability. i play vengeance in PvP and though it lacks some things it isnt the horror story people claim. This spec can be tweeked in ways that benefit both sides of the game. I would prefer that. I don't want an OP class, I want a competitive class and it's close witha few fixes.

I agree with you. My points have been solely pure DPS and utility. Maras in general have more team utility and survivability in arenas and WZ's. My main is a Veng jugg and I couldn't be happier.

In reality though that would leave us with giant gaps in our rotation.

16k in one shot! Hell yeah talk about burst lol! People would go insane!

It has been brought up but don't worry about it bud. I like/don't know if I like this idea. Lol. It certainly would be unique to us. I feel like Bioware won't go for it. Because master strike is so powerful I don't think they want us mobile. Well they are giving us a root you say, well there are so many root immunities over all the specs this still provides a lot of escape for other classes, which I feel is as intended. But hey it isn't a bad idea.