^This. Kreia has scattered remnants of forces while Revan has a vast army...this is the main reason I thought this contest ridiculously favored Revan. After reading the OP I honestly expected more from this thread than the "who's better/cooler" threads I've glanced at and skipped over in the past. But half the arguments here have come down to support of which character people like more without any real thought put into the pure logistics of the militaries facing off against each other, leaders aside. But while I expected more from his initial post, the OPs contrivance to force a 1 on 1 battle, and his blatant defense of Kreia throughout the debate...well, I guess I know to just pass over these Kaggath threads like I would a thread titled "Death Battle". You know it's a good debate when your supposedly impartial judge is going to argue for one side the whole time

That's exactly what I've been thinking, that the scale of their forces is simply not a match for each other. Revan has the clear, insurmountable advantage in terms of pure resources. You setting numbers to it, even if those numbers are made up they are in the general ball-park in terms of the scale differences, serves more effectively to demonstrate that point than anything I could think to say. And that's really what it comes down to. The Kaggath sets up what is supposed to be a military conflict between a fully realized military power with an experienced leader and an organization that is completely ill-equipped to be anything of the sort and a non-military leader. There's nothing wrong with Kreia or her methods in the normal scheme of things, but battle like this is CLEARLY not her strength. I think only the best of Kreia in the areas where she excels, but with the conflict as presented in the OP it is absolutely ridiculous to think she had even a fighting chance.

As per the rules of the Kaggath, Kreia also shouldn't be able to hide...

Exactly. But given that Beni has been arguing in favor of Kreia throughout the debate, and insistent on shoehorning Revan into a 1v1 in the place she's most powerful...I think his decision was made a while back.

This is exactly what I was thinking as I read through these last few pages. For some reason Revan is bound to launch a foolhardy assault as per the rules, but Kreia is exempt from having to do the same. She is allowed to fortify a position in the most defendable location in existence, which only works because Revan is FORCED, through no choice of his own, to attack it. The real result of this war, assuming Revan's hand isn't forced, is that Kreia is a prisoner. That's victory right there, imprisoning the enemy leader and high command. The planet is blockaded, and since Kreia has no way to escape, she is imprisoned on an inhospitable planet with Sith of dubious loyalty, while Revan can do whatever the hell he wants now.

1. Revan's fleet outnumbers the Sith fleet. Like, by a lot. So why are you assuming that a) Revan would for some reason be unprepared to be attacked by ships and b) take heavier losses in his massive fleet than the Sith would with their much smaller fleet? It makes no sense. 2) "Assassins sneak onboard a couple of Revan's ships". How? In the scenario you gave, they can't just "sneak" on as they would need ships to do so, and ships are not as invisible as the assassins. So a lot of assassins die trying to get their ships onto Republic ships, and even then, Revan knows SOMETHING is up since nothing seems to come out of the boarding party ships. 3) "the assassins have taken control of multiple frigates". Again, how? The takeover of the ship we saw in KOTOR 2 took a while, and tons of people on these ships are going to have plenty of time to report that some **** is going down before the Assassins have control of the ship. Which gives Revan options of sending his own men into the ships to clear out these assassins, or simply shoot his own ships down if he thinks it'd be better use of his resources. For some reason people seem to think these Assassins are some sort of trump card that wins the battle for Kreia, but their strength lies in the shadows, and choosing their battles. If Revan is forcing a direct engagement in which the assassins need to board Revan's ships while in space, while Revan is anticipating boarding parties...then there goes surprise, their MAIN advantage. If taking over multiple Republic ships was so easy to do, these assassins would have DONE that already in KOTOR 2, taking over Republic ships that wouldn't be expecting it, and not full of battle ready troops. But given that they didn't, we can pretty much assume it's not as easy as some people are making it out to be. The only ship we DO see them take is alone, not full of soldiers, not exactly battle prepared, brought a derelict ship onboard (which is what let the assassins into the ship in the first place), and they had Darth Sion with them as well. So essentially the absolute ideal situation for them. And what indication do we have that these assassins know how to operate massive Republic ships? They certainly didn't capture the one from KOTOR 2 and add it to the Sith fleet, did they?

I can't believe I read through all of that...but I felt that I had to before I could respond. Anyway... It seems the consensus of the thread is that Revan would win in conventional warfare. His fleet is vastly superior, I don't think it could be argued otherwise given the loss of the Ravager and the fact that the Sith of Kotor 2 had the entirety of their fleet pretty much defeated in a single battle by a Republic that was already on the verge of collapsing. Not to mention that Reven has been shown a master of strategy and tactics, furthering his advantage and making the disparity here insurmountable. So then let's look at Kreia's shadow tactics...unless we're giving her the advantage of initiating combat and giving Revan absolutely no idea who he's fighting until she strikes first (which seems entirely against the idea of this contest in the first place) then Revan will know her power base is Malachor V. Kreia can use her assassins but that's about it... they could cause some chaos and confusion for a little while but Revan would adapt and Kreia has no larger moves to make that utilize the confusion. Her Sith and military forces are nowhere near large enough to mount an attack on Revan's forces no matter how disoriented they are by assassins. She has no comparable military, rendering her one offensive advantage null. So let's say Revan is attacking Malachor V. Given the nature of the planet, Kreia's fleet can either be defending it from space or...somewhere else. None of her ships can land on the surface any more than Revan's can, so anything that does defend the planet is quickly wiped out, and either way Revan now has COMPLETE control of anything coming into or moving out of Malachor V. If there's a way to block communications with this total blockade, he'll do it and neutralize any forces Kreia has outside of Malchor V, as they would lose coordination. But now we're supposed to believe that Revan's only option is to land on the planet with everything he has, and in doing so manage to eliminate all of his and Kreia's forces so completely and effectively that they are left to duel in the heart of her power? Given Revan's clear advantage leading up to that point, this is absolutely the worst maneuver possible. He has so many more options, so let's explore them. Keep in mind, at this point Kreia would be unable to organize her Sith Assassins, so even if Revan had somehow had significant casualties before this, there is nothing else Kreia can do. 1. Bombard them from orbit. If ships are pulled in and smashed into the surface...then steer those ships so they crash into the target while blasting it with everything it has on the way down. I think I read someone saying this was against the rules? Well that just serves to lessen a clear advantage for no good reason, but there are other options. 2. Feel out the planet. Send scout teams, build forward bases, established artillery, entrench yourself just as much as Kreia is so that you have a secure postion to advance from. If, in the process, Revan comes to realize the planet makes all of this an impossible tactic, then he can abandone it in the early stages and lose a very small investment of his very large forces. Kreia would control only a very small portion of the planet, which means Revan has the rest of the planet to use as he pleases. Even if establishing a base of his own is not possible, he would have plenty of time to study the planet and develop the best possible methods of transporting troops without losing them, which would significantly improve his chances if an assault were necessary. 3. Turn Kreia's supporters. She is in a position in which it is obvious she has lost the upper hand, so Revan communicates a willingness to pardon and let live those who give up Kreia and surrender. It's already established that Kreia is no leader and cannot inspire loyalty, so naturally a large contingent would jump at the chance to save their own skins by turning her over. Even if she somehow maintain loyalty of some of Sith...who aren't known for their loyalty to weak leaders or lost causes, it would still incite at least some infighting, weakening Kreia's forces even further. 4. Wait. Even without the offer of a pardon, Kreai would be unlikely to maintain the loyalties of those beneath her for an extended period of time in a siege situation that left her powerless. The soldiers would be dying even if the Sith endured, but morale would be at an incredible low and very few Sith would desire to stay and defend the academy for an attack that might come at some point in the future form Revan's massive forces. Those not powerful enough to usurp Kreia's leadership might simply abandone her, and search for wrecked ships to take them off planet or even attempt to establish themselves elsewhere on the planet. 5. Attack. This would happen, if it needed to happen at all, after a long blockade of the planet. Any supporters of Kreia that remained would be low in number, underfed, and very low on morale. Revan could easily lose more than half his army landing them there, but even that wouldn't matter. Even a fraction of his forces would be able to storm the Academy at this point and take it down. Even in the heart of her power, Kreia would not have the strength to fight off dozens of Jedi and hundreds or thousands of troops that would face her there. One final note I want to make, that I feel has been disregarded this whole debate. Every one keeps talking about how Kreia would attempt to turn Revan's men, or convert them, or cause them to lose faith in their leader...but Revan's forces have VERY clearly been shown to be exceptionally loyal to him, and Kreia's forces have been very clearly shown to be DISLOYAL. They are Sith, after all, and have clearly betrayed her in the past in favor of following the other 2 Sith Lords...so why would anyone think it is Revan's forces that would abandon him and not hers? Kreia's has one advantage here, the Mass Shadow Generator making landing on the planet difficult (even though I thought the OP said "No superweapons, e.g. Mass Shadow Generator...") but that can only count for so much when she is clearly disadvantaged in every other way that matters. And even with that taken into account, Revan has numerous victory conditions that are extremely likely to occur. Kreia has one: she gets to 1v1 Revan in the place she's most powerful, which would be achieved through the contrived coincidence of ALL of their forces dying in one battle. So who's winning this fight? It seems pretty clear to me...

The only 2 things out of all of that I would back you up on are having more species to choose from (I don't think anyone would want to fight this) and potentially the bit about having some missions specific to the advanced class. I haven't noticed it if it's in the game already, but I think that would make a pretty cool addition to the game. I wouldn't expect it to be anything major, just an extra little bit of story/questing you might run into every couple of planets which would be different according to your Advanced Class. Give a little bit of recognition as to your choice of advanced class to really make you feel more defined and unique in that role. Obviously nothing too big; I wouldn't want them thinking they would need to put in the work of having 16 different class stories. No, just a few missions throughout the whole leveling experience, with one final one at 50 to cap things off.