I'll have to check the PTS notes. Seem like you're saying they just cut Lacerates range in half regardless of what that does for the other specs

Is this change still going through? I saw something on the PTS saying it was taken out but without a source; PTS notes themselves?

Yes it's no longer outside guard range, yes you have to be within melee range to DoT spread. The trade off is faster DoT spread, faster DoT spread means greater uptime, greater uptime means better damage/sustained pressure. It's increased Range vs Speeding up spread. What does more damage doing it from far away or doing it faster?

Lacerates tool tip reads "within 5 meters", I assume that means 5m radius, which would mean it's 10 vs DF's 16.

How does ranged not being clumped or not clumped differ except you have to move your character instead of your mouse change anything? If ranged were spread out you still won't have hit them with DF or only spread your DoT's to 1 other target, it's a 6m difference. You may also have waited to use DF until more people stacked delaying outgoing damage. Lacerate uses as much force as Thrash, DF can be used on CD now instead holding it to spread DoT's. I looked for Evo's post in the original thread about making Lacerate the DoT spread abilitity for the additional reasons or his breakdown of why it shouldn't switch to lacerate without a change to lacerate but was unable to find it; though even Aelanis's suggestion stated Lacerate would need to change so it wasn't spammable.

PvP doesn't need sustained, PvE does. Seeing how people play Deception in PvE, we, the PvE players, do need increased sustain damage to a point where it matches the sustained damage of other burst classes. In PvE there are few times where control matters and if the PvP players want to trade control for burst, the impact on PvE will be minimal. My earlier point was control, and breaking control is important in PvP. I don't believe it matters if it only takes 1 player to get another to full resolve, co-originated CC chains has the same effect.

If you could use the Slam move without a CD in Vengence would you consider it a nerf or a buff?

Increasing Assassinate or LS puts the class at near burst levels of damage. Increasing DoT damage increases healing received. The increase would need to come from thrash but still leave it low enough to not approach low burst level damage, saber strike and possibly the Charge, or from re working the way the spec works.

The only PvE fight where this change will affect DPS is Lurker as the adds are to far away to DoT spread. This isn't a major PvE nerf. DoT spread with instant Demolish proc vs larger DoT spread area. This change by itself is a terrible change. It was discussed in the thread when this idea was first suggested, with a low energy, no CD DoT spread, that Proc's instant Demolish the class becomes better in PvP. Because Lacerate has no CD there is no reason to delay DoT spread, in other words the change switches a bigger area to spread DoTs to the ability to basically spam DoT spread. Lacerate force cost is not that much greater then thrash so there really isn't that much change to the single target rotation. The suggestion was made to make a change to Lacerate but any change to Lacerate will have a significant affect on Decep and even Darkness. I like the idea that the class plays more like a Madness Sorc then melee, it adds class diversity. There is also no serious change to the single target rotation, switching 1 Lacerate for a Thrash. So the real question becomes are they going to push this to live or are they going to make Lacerate changes and break it for the other specs first...

I was going to say Deception. You get Lacerate early and can buff it with your first talent point to a point where it will kill groups of mobs in 3/4 shots gear dependent. There really isn't a wrong spec to level in just in how you want to play.

I can see your point. I don't want the classes burst to be increase but rather it's sustained through the use of less Saber Strikes and possibly an increase to Surging Charge damage. Something over the course of 30 seconds isn't noticeable but after 2 minutes adds up.

The problem isn't that it will have a minimal impact on PvP but that it will have an impact on PvP. Players are calling for a nerf, Sin/Shadow are FoTM class. What do you think will happen in the SW PvP community if an already powerful spec gets a passive increase to survivability?

We're off topic and of different opinions. You believe Decep's control is too good for a DPS increase without loosing some of that control and I think it's irrelevant. Truthfully Decep/Infil is in a good spot, it just falls behind other burst spec's in PvE.

The problem is it will still give an advantage in PvP. People will find a way to take advantage of it! If the shield starts building as soon as the player is at 100% life they will end up with extra mitigation. If it's no damage in the last 5 seconds before it starts building then it's PvE viablity is reduced. It's a smart, unique suggestion but it still impacts PvP where the class is over performing.

I like the idea, I have of 2 ways to abuse it in PvP. DoT up, Cloak or DoT up, phase walk both removes you from the area to build up a bit of a shield before you re- jump into combat. Yes it takes you out of combat and possibly hurts your team but for Yolo's people will complain even more. I think whatever is decided to improve survivability needs to be tied to a talent PvP players avoid. This way PvP doesn't end up getting a passive buff to survivability and has to loose 1 utility for another.