A few classes have had nerfs recently, are you comparing it to pre nerf slingers? Might also explain the energy management too. Might have nothing to do with your internet...

First of all, go back and read my post again, where did I say that Sorc is *inferior* to op in burst...? The point was simply that *our* burst is not as *inferior* as it once was, compared to the nerf'd Sorc. On a tank with 2 probes, in a 4-5 gcd period, I think an op and Sorc are now a lot closer than they once were, but I'm reading people still complaining about our burst. Both capable of 100k in that period (rough napkin math based off crit values). On a non tank, they lose maybe 10-15k in the same period. But if you're dps are dying to spike damage that you can't heal.... Something else is going on in your raid. Generally your aoes and a little bit of focus healing is all that's needed from both healers to get them back in a few gcd's. Kolto waves and salvation both have advantages and disadvantages. Waves quicker, burstier, lower cool down but a cast..... Salvation longer cool down, slower heal, cast but can be placed and walk away and if your team is smart they can put 1 foot in it at the last second and still get the full heal! Waves is stronger but salvation is more versatile. If they nerf it without some QoL changes......But now we get into a different conversation. Hopefully this week I'll run my scoundrel with our sage, now that the nerf is on hold and see how it compares.

Everyone is still complaining about burst for scoundrel/ops but if Sage/Sorc is the new yardstick with which we are measuring healing output, are they really behind them now after the nerf? If you have your hots on the tanks at bare minimum (which should be always) burst is solid, when compared to post nerf sages. Weak bubble, slow healing trance etc.... Sage/Sorc has lost a lot of burst. I haven't compared the 2 post nerf because I was assuming a scoundrel/op nerf was coming but I think I would be pretty surprised now if the scoundrel/op was worse off than a sage/Sorc....? I would still love to see some QoL changes, but I just don't think that will ever come as we are just focusing on output at the moment. If that is the case, then a reasonable nerf to our aoe heals and leave our single target alone and we are probably close to a post nerf sage/Sorc, imo.

Just in case you hadn't found it already, this thread is a good starting point. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622 Any variances from here are more for personal preference and only make minor differences to overall dps/dtps etc.... Honestly, apart from hitting the accuracy cap, the biggest difference you can make is in perfecting your rotation/situational awareness during ops/fps etc. So don't forget that.... You see many people in full 248 gear but can barely reach sm dps checks... Gear is secondary to knowing your class, imo. Hope this helps.

I agree SO MUCH! With your whole statement. Sadly......

I think a lot of people, including myself, have no idea what metrics they are using because we have to scratch our heads a LOT after all the patches we've seen over the years. I wish I shared your optimism, but in my experience, I haven't seen a lot of patches/nerfs (or buffs for that matter) that make a whole lot of sense..... I'll hold my judgments and comments until all of the "balancing" is complete.....

Not sure exactly what you are trying to say here but HM/VM fights have not been healing intensive for quite some time, which is why the devs are nerfing healing output. Hell, there are only a couple of NiM boss fights that 2 competent healers actually need to pay attention to... I haven't healed master blaster with the new tier gear but from what I remember, the last burn phase of the fight was the only time the 2 healers had to actually pay attention. With the new tier of gear, I'm guessing that would be even less now. The only time the healers were put under any significant stress were when mechanics were not done properly, ie mechanic check, not healing check. If that is what was wiping him, then the group needs work on mechanics. The whole fight is about positioning, more than anything else. So without knowing what was causing the wipes, hard to say if it was healing or mechanic related. If everything was perfect with mechanics and you still couldn't keep people up, then obv that is a healing issue. But without more information, it's impossible to say. Raw healing numbers on that fight don't tell the full story. The fact that they were relatively even only shows that either both healers are bad or mechanics are being missed. My money is on mechanics until we get more information. Missing dps checks are obvious. Why the raid is dying, requires a little more investigation. Telling the healers to heal harder, isn't always going to fix the problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm a supporter of nerfing heals across the board, heals has been overtuned for a while now. Provided it's done right.....

Devs are in the process of nerfing all healing classes back to a "target" HPS number. Sage/Sorc just received the first round of healing nerfs, scoundrel/ops are up next and mando's will undoubtedly follow. So at the moment, yes, sage/Sorcs are behind the other classes but that will all change over the next few months depending on what they do to the other classes. Be patient and wait for all the nerfs to hit before we all start asking for buffs again.

Apart from raw numbers, you haven't given us much to work with. I'm assuming that you guys weren't able to clear it and you're frustrated that the "under geared" mando was too close to you with respect to EHPS...? Assuming you are both playing your class right, those numbers sound about right with respect to comparable healing figures to relative gear. Mando should end up higher than you given the same gear and skill level. Mando's will get nerfed soon, I am sure of it, so don't sweat that. I haven't healed MB in a while and can't recall raw numbers off the top of my head but that fight is a MASSIVE mechanics check, not a heal check. Probably still one of the toughest mechanic checks in the game. So if you can heal your group through most of the other HM/Vet boss fights, I would put money down on the mechanics killing the group, not the healers. Was there a particular phase that was wiping the group? Obv if you cleared it, then life is good and the numbers look about right.

I agree with the replies I've seen above. HPS is a completely useless number and something you should NOT be interested in comparing. EHPS is the number you should be worrying about and *if* you play your class right (you would be surprised the number of people who think they are God at a class and actually have no idea what they are doing, so always be open to help/ideas) EHPS is more about learning fights and predicting incoming damage and then utilizing your classes abilities to efficiently heal the incoming damage. Time and time again I see healers using the wrong heals for a situation during pug runs. Bubble/absorb healing is something to make sure you are calculating correctly and take into consideration because that is 100% effective healing ALL the time. Whilst becoming more efficient with your healer, keep in mind Sage/Sorcs received the first round of nerf for heals. So at the moment, sages are behind the other 2 classes (all things being equal). Devs have indicated that all healers will be brought back to their "target" HPS Mark, which means the other 2 classes will be nerfed soon enough. For reference, I heal NiM with all 3 classes but I've been mando healing with a sage partner through nim raids for the last 12 months. Pre-nerf we were always close for EHPS. Depending on the fight, sage would be higher, others Mando would be higher. Post nerf, sage has dropped 2-3k EHPS behind. Looks like scoundrels are up next and it's only a matter of time for the mando's too. Be patient and master your class.

This is what we should all be afraid of.... If they pull the scoundrel/op HPS numbers back to their magical target, without some QoL changes to *how* the class heals, scoundrel/op healers won't be wanted in raids over the other 2 classes. Most encounters provide healers with burst/spike damage to heal. The other 2 classes can handle this more efficiently than a scoundrel/op. A rework to a few abilities is what the class needs, if they are going to nerf the overall HPS numbers. A rework to our hots would be nice. Maybe set them up so they only begin healing once the target has taken damage. This would reduce over healing and increase ehps. Reduce the output but have them tick quicker maybe...? Or maybe, any target with 2 stacks of SRMP that is hit by Kolto Cloud, has the remainder of their SRMP tick at the same speed as the Kolto Cloud? Would help with burst? The other two healers have a 20m range on their signature heal, why is Kolto Cloud only 10? That would be nice and fair? I'm not even sure it is a "smart" heal? With only a 10m range, apart from the target you select it on, it's mostly wasted as an over heal. Scoundrels are also the least mobile healers at the moment. That would be a nice change? Any significant scoundrel heal is a cast. My mando has 1..... Everything else can be done on the move. Doesn't exactly seem fair. Pick one and allow it to be cast while moving. Would be interested in hearing any other ideas. Once they nerf the output of the class, I don't feel any of these ideas would make scoundrel/op OP but more inline with what the other classes can currently do, without losing the class feel. I really hope they don't just nerf the class into oblivion because I actually find it a lot more interesting to play than the other 2, I just don't have a reason to play it over the other 2....

I have all 3 healers and have been raiding nim with all of them as well. I find it really hard to understand how you believe this statement to be true. Not trying to attack you but I would love to run with a scoundrel/op through some nim content against my mando and see the actual numbers to back this statement up. Are they viable for nim content, in the right hands, absolutely. Do they require a little more attention than pre nerf sages, yup. Would I consider them better than the other two classes, not even close. The biggest problem, imo, has always been *how* they heal, not how much they heal. Their output has always been fine, but it's the reactive healing vs proactive healing that's always bothered me. The only time a scoundrel can really shine, is when there is massive, sustained, raid wide damage. I can only think of a couple of fights where that is useful. Most of the nim content is based around spike damage and small amounts of raid damage, which the other 2 healers can handle better and quicker than a scoundrel/op. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy scoundrel/op healing more so than the other 2, but without some QOL changes to how they heal, I just don't see the point in bringing one. Given their output potential has always been above the other 2 classes (though most of it is completely wasted on over heal and not recommended is nim raiding), I can see a nerf to output to bring things into line with post nerf sages, mando as well for that matter. But I would love to be proved wrong and if someone wants to set up a run with their scoundrel/op, I would be happy to see it out heal my mando across a full raid. As for the topic at hand, healing has been overtuned for pve raiding for a long time now and I have no problem with the devs pulling things back into line. As long as it's consistent across all 3 classes. The only way the sage nerf is too much, is if they do nothing to the other classes. Nerfing mandos will be a must, but if they nerf the output of the scoundrel/ops without changing some QoL things, I feel scoundrels may be the class left behind. Again.

Yah, I hear you. Maybe we could start a petition to bring back Balance 1.0....!?

You're probably right. So if they keep going and pull everything back to the "target performance" they have in mind, then it stands to reason infil will get a small nerf. Though, it wouldn't be the first time they have completely messed things up, so I'll believe it when I see it. I'm currently mando healing in our nim group right now, opposite a sage healer. I loved how balanced the 2 classes felt together. Some fights, I would outperform and others the sage would win in the ehps race. We jumped on this week to run and now the sage is 3-5k ehps behind... I really hope they have a mando heal nerf coming as well, because as it stands mando are the op class for pve healing. PVE healing has been overtuned for some time now, so I am hoping they pull the healers back a bit to make it challenging again.

Oh hey bud, glad to see you still around. I came back maybe 12 months ago, after my "break".