You cannot be serious... story mode too hard? It's easy mode as is. Pugs are running them and downing them without breaking a sweat. My guild busted thorugh 4/4 HM and I've been part of 4/4 story mode pug runs on my alts. If a pug group who have never met or played together before can blow through a raid in one night, there is absolutely no excuse for anyone else to not do the same. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to agree with the rest of the sentiment in this thread and say, L2P or have your guildies/friends learn their class. If they nerfed it and made it any easier, you may as well just go into the instance, click a button, and collect loot. We even had one of our healers switch into a dps spec with healing gear for ***** n giggles to try out another healer in 16m. We still blew through the raid in no time. If you're telling me random pugs and people screwing around playing a spec they've never played before and in completely inappropiate gear can down content and you can't. I'm afraid the problem isn't the content.

I'm currently trying out the best starting burst rotation then flow into a priority list. Currently my start out is 1. Poison Dart - Start out with a DoT for internal dmg (since it can't be reduced by armor and roll a DoT early on and consumed 20 energy. My goal is to hover at 60% right from the get go as much as possible to maxmize early burst dps and then flow into sustained) 2. Shatter shot - armor debuff of course 3. Orbital strike (quick succession of the 2 abilities will knock my energy sub 80 and w/the channel time for OS, will bring me back to 100 by the time it launches) 3. Laze target + snipe - sets up proc for Ambush 4. Pop power trink/adrenal + Followthrough 5. Ambush 6. TA + SoS + RF + (followthrough comes off cd here) SoS + SoS (Now without lag, upon popping the adrenals/trink, that should take 13.5 seconds in. So during this whole burst I maximizing the use of the power boost as much as I can) 7. Poison dart, snipe, and roll into the priority based rotation Anyone else tried a similiar rotation or is this not as efficient/effective as the openers that people are using?

There is more fluff in your posts than actual material I must say... ................ ................................................................... .............................................................................................................................................. I.... I........... You're arguing about high end game raiding feasibility and yet you have NOT even stepped into the most current content on story mode. Exactly how can we take you seriously? That's like disputing the prosecutor's evidence in court and being called upon as a forensic expert, when your credential is in burger flipping. I don't even... and you don't even tank with jugg? I.... k time to fast forward that just ended your entire post from here on out. It's equivalent of a wolf in sheep costume arguing about the legality of the wolf's right to wear a sheep costume before the court of supreme sheep. So let's review... 1 - You have not even stepped foot into the most current end game content to witness the liabilities a jugg tank exposes the entire raid to compared to using another class. 2 - You do not even tank with a jugg and are making statements that jugg tanking is fine. 3 - You tank with ANOTHER class and are arguing against another class's suggestions to make them equal with other classes. 4 - You post in multiple threads that debate about the viability of jugg tanks and flame them in their inability as a player to play their class Sir... You either are a) The greatest forum troll or b) Do not want other classes to have the same tanking viability as yours. Or all of the above.

Jugg tanking is about as fine as a kitten thrown through a wood chipper. Our guild having downed HM EC, there is an incredibly noticeable difference between the jugg tank vs. our bh/si tank. It was not even close. The bh/si tank took far less dmg, far less spikes, and held threat a whole lot easier. The QoL issues a jugg faces are still there and suffice to say, our tank sets are now bh/si and we have yet to look back since. Having played the 3 tank classes, jugg is by far hands down the crappiest in threat generation and mitigation. Despite the "buffs" they were given, they're still very far behind.

Funny... I love how these "adults" or "grown up gamer kids" love to criticize people who do have the time or have time management down pat. Sorry, but having a job or any XYZ responsibility does not excuse one to be bad at a game and drag down their team with them. And before you decide to rap on me for a no-work living in a basement kid. 1) I have work just like you and probably just as crazy of a schedule. 830AM to 8PM and my latest return to home on record, is 3AM. Yes, that's 3 IN THE MORNING. Oh, and that was on a Sunday to boot. 2) I run a non-profit volunteering commmunity club. Run the usual club meetings, board meetings, set up year activities and focus on where we want to pour our energy and funds into. And yet, I can still run 4 nights of raiding a week clearing nightmare mode raids. These excuses of "oh I don't have time" is garbage. Learn to time manage better. We don't need your condescending tone of disapproval of our skill in managing our lives.

When you start running nightmare mode raids and wipe and wipe and wipe oh and... WIPE. Then you'll understand just a little bit why it is so important to have some of these tools to determine the issue and fix it. Right now we're running it blind without ANY proof, just theory.

Playing as a jugg tank, Vette is an absolute must for me to make up the DPS short fall. Especially her ridiculous burst DPS when adequately geared. She can take on a whole silver/strong mob herself without a problem.

Credits are easy to come by as is... simply breathing will net you credits. Out of 4 instances I ran last night, BoI, FE, D7, and BP, we've only wiped once and that was because of the Interrogator boss bug on D7. I don't understand how people are dying so much on instances... So either run with guildies Get a friends list of good players to play with Take the lead of the party and guide your party through the encounter I do all 3 (I'm a tank btw) and that has net me very little wipes.

uh... no? The only conclusion I can derive from every person that hates addons, is that they don't want to be called out for their poor performance and be carried. We left a guild because a GM was so bad at their job, that it dragged the entire party down with them. Unfortunately, we don't have an addon to prove this, so we had to use a companion. How so? Well we kept hitting the enrage at 30% HP remaining on the bulwark boss in HM D7. We had a hunch that it was him, but could not definitively prove it. Instead, we dropped him, used my companion Vette, in green gear, and tried the boss again. Guess what? The boss enraged at 10%HP remaining instead... She did 20% MORE damage than an actual player. If we had recount, we wouldn't have to go through this period and would find out right away who was holding us back. A freakin NPC in GREENS outdps'd an actual player... is it really fair to subject the other 3 players to one player's fail? I for one want a tool that can show me exactly what is going on, who is doing their share of contribution and who is outright just sitting back on the backs of other players.

... can't tell if epic troll or someone who is spoiled beyond reason... Did you seriously just ask for easier access to a rare raid drop? I mean really? And take it as a personal insult to your play style? You can feel however you want to feel, but I highly doubt BioWare woke up one day and said, "Hey guys, I think we should piss off XYZ player by making a rare raid drop because we can!". They've got bigger things to work on and worry about than to focus on "insulting" you. Sorry bud, the world does not revolve around you.

... it is self-evident now that you're just pissed that you're not able to ride the gravy train that was slicing and want it back to where it was. This whole argument of yours on the nerf to slicing wrecking the whole game economy is yet to be proven or demonstrated. However, the OP factor that is slicing in just 2 weeks, has. Even post nerf it is still more than capable in delivering like a cash printing machine. Refer to this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=72970 Now THAT is exactly what I am referencing to. Being smart on what mission you pick (don't matter if it's just 5% of the missions) and you can still rake in cash. Pick up cash on the floor and have 0 worries about price fluctation of your wares if you went with any other gathering profession. You have to also look at the cost of liquidity, safe or risk-free investment vs. risk investment. If you seriously want to go down the economics route, I'll be more than willing to entertain, but I'm afraid this whole argument isn't about the "game economy" anymore. Your persistence in un-nerfing slicing argument wrapped up in a shell of "for the greater good of the game" is funny at best.

Thank you kind sir for this thread. This is exactly what I have been talking about. Profitability is still more than possible from slicing and quite honestly, I don't think they nerfed it enough and I have 2 full 400lvl slicers! Our entire guild are slicers.

...not sure if troll or just likes using flashy colors to blind people on the forums... That's exactly what you're doing... I'm presenting that the analogy you used to represent the current state of affairs on slicing is flawed, and you counter with a broken racket... That was twisting my argument that the nerf right now is fine and you're retorting with 5% viability on missions = bad, supported by your example. How is that not a strawman again? I read through the garbage unfortunately, and unfortunately for you, I still disagree on your suggestion. No other profession has guaranteed cash and EVEN with only a 5% viability on the missions, that's still 5% more guaranteed cash than any other profession. You know what I do with my companions? I send them all only to those missions that has a net return, ignoring the rest. Is that 5% REALLY stopping me from raking in cash? Hell no. I just have to be more selective on what missions I send them out on and have them on high affection for a higher crit rate. Mean while, using my self-funded system, I've almost lvl'd up to 200 diplomacy in one night funded solely and yours truly, slicing. Which gives me more crit chance from affection, giving me more money from slicing, and the loop continues without me ever buying anything from vendors/GTN. Increasing the yield rate would not pump more money into the system, but rather for a smart player, pump more into their own self-sufficient individual economy. The market problem with other professions is not solved by increasing yield, but rather a proposed solution in another thread that I absolutely support, but I'll get to that later. Uh.. no... the problem for our gatherers and crafters is not solely based on lack of credits in the economy, but rather the availability of replacements. Vendors selling crafting ware materials or badge ware that is equivalent if not better than crafted types. The solution to this problem would be to remove said craft mat vendors and give that exclusivity of supply, back to the gatherer and crafter. Buff the stats on said player made gear and voila, you create demand, and prices itself will rise without this price "deflation" we're experiencing. Players will have to find ways to earn more money if they want the gear and you've got yourself a system that can support itself. As it stands, there is VERY little reason for me to go to the GTN to buy anything. The gear offering is simply not superior to the alternative or price efficient. Your solution of pumping money into the economy won't fix diddly if the demand is not there. That's what I was saying... an impossible to resist temptation to dive into slicing because of its oh... money printing prowess? ... not sure if serious, or if you completely are trolling and not reading what I'm saying... I am mad people making money while logged off? Hell, I'm doing that RIGHT NOW! So... why would I be mad at myself? I am deeply confused... It perplexes and escapes me greatly how people can be so broke when quest rewards and loots from mobs provides more than sufficient creds for anything and everything. I mean seriously, what are people blowing their money on? In the beta hitting lvl31, having ZERO professions (no slicing here so no cred pumping potential), AFTER spending on the mount, etc, I was sitting on a lush 300k. Sorry, but we're not here to balance on people's spending habits. You just said before that no one is being forced to take slicing, fine. If they were doing well pre-nerf (the non-slicers), exactly how are they affected again post-nerf? If the ENTIRE GTN was only supported by slicing, and slicing alone, then we've got a major problem here... Fortunately for us, the economy didn't crash and no such thing happened. ... /facepalm The profession is still incredibly profitable, you'd actually have a point if the whole thing sucked *** from a straw. That very 5% you keep touting around, ya well, that is more than enough to still net a profit. Using your own logic, no one is forcing you to take on net negative missions. I mean, knowing that a particular mission will net you a negative return, do you still send your companions to it? Really? Because if that's so, the issue sure as hell ain't bioware or myself. What they didn't want is people just to sit there and breathe to collect credits rolling in. Throwing in such a heavy nerf on their part, tried to push people away from slicing onto other professions which... oh wait, if people are, they're accomplishing exactly what they set out to do! If you're so concerned about the galactic economy, then you should be more concerned about the demand side or rather lack thereof. Throwing more money at a low demand economy is not going to instantly spur growth. As for our guild leader, I never once said he was all knowing. And yes, he is a doer, and so is our guild. Want to spur us into spending some of the hoarded cash we have into the GTN? Provide a strong enough incentive. Like the fixes brought up before, remove ingame vendors selling the mats, having said mats become exclusive FOR the gatherers. Buff the stats on the crafts to make them viable and create a demand for those who really want the top of the line gear. Do that and you'll be surprised how fast the prices rise and how all this epic price "Deflation" problem all go away. ... I am exactly saying some missions should net negative return to prevent the easy farm that it was. And no, that is NOT a typo. They had to act decisively into putting a stop on people power lvling their slicing and turning it into a money pumping machine that it was. Now you actually have to invest quite a bit of money into said gathering profession to net a return. Oh how shocking that it works like every other profession... Bioware needed people off the gravy train that is slicing. We all knew it was coming and we sliced the hell out of it before the nerf. For those that came late, yeah it sucks, but that does not mean money still can't be made. You're making it sound like we're heading into the great depression of SWTOR because slicing is no longer OP. ... just noticed your last edit about removing vendors, not sure when you added that in, but it was after 1/3/12. That change I'd support as I've already said, but to un-nerf and put slicing back to where it was? Absolutely not. In fact, if we want to get off the money printing machine and turn it into true gathering profession, take off the credits and then go with the suggestion of making augments truly viable. Give them the exclusive supplier of augments(make augments viable on all gear of course) and missions for other professions without the ability to freely print money because where it stands right now. 1 - Can print money even if it's 5% of the time, but if you do just those 5% missions, that's a 100% profit. 2 - Proc epic aguments, albeit rare, still can sell for quite a bit. 3 - Proc missions for other professions and some of the epic, which I sell for quite a bit on GTN. So the "5%" net profit + selling these missions just continues to compound the money monster machine this profession is.

I have 2 toons, one lvl50 and another lvl48 (no I did not power lvl/spacebar spam, 2 weeks off can give you all the time you need). Both with slicing lvl400, net together, I have 1.9million credits. That's after spending into speeder upgrades, giving away credits to my guildies to buy THEIR mounts and upgrades, other money sinks, etc. Yeah... definitely needed nerfing.

I cannot possibly agree more with your post. Thread Contribution to the Game++