Jedis are inspired by Bhuddist monks in Ancient China. Thats where the whole concept comes from. The Bhuddists are independent of emotions. They would earn a living by trading bhuddist luck or ghost repelling rituals to local villages and towns in exchange for meals. Their temples are usually situated on mountains overlooking villages. When warlords wanted to conquer the area, they would take both the village AND the temple since it is an advantageous spot (on a mountain). The monks therefore had to teach themselves to defend for themselves and the weak. It didn't matter if the warlords were trying to unite or pillage; as long as violence was used the monks fought back. This is the base of what a Jedi should be. Independent of emotion and repelling of others who want to overtake their mutual bond with nearby villages. The Sith on the other hand are an embodiment of extremists and idealists. They strive for "unlimited power", fuel themselves on emotions most of the time blindly and without thinking of consequences. They are ruthless all in all. You have to think of this in terms of ideology and what each side embody. Remember that this has just as much analytic value as any other. The whole SW fantasy is an embodiment of human experiences and emotions. As in every case, it's impossible to distinguish right from wrong. We simply side with whats more relatable, rational and believable for us.

well I'm trying to save up enough to get the set bonuses cause columi class gear never seems to drop for me. I've only got 2 sets of columi. But I do see where you're going with it. Why grind out tionese gear when you can get gear just as good in 3-4 days by doing daily quests

anyone who does HMs regularly will have already piled up a big stack of tionese crystals without enough tionese commendations to trade in for anything. Since we get the crystals so regularly, they become somewhat valueless because you can only use them with tionese commendations. Therefore if you want to trade in tionese gear you only need to concern yourself with the commendations and not the crystals. My question therefore is: Whats the point of the crystal itself when it's essentially valueless? For me it feels like a pointless little gift after every boss that we kill so we don't feel cheated that nothing of "value" drops. what do you guys think? Is getting enough crystals a problem for you? Do you think the crystals are valueless? Please let me know as a reply. Cownchicken

I never mentioned finding a group being the problem. I'm in a guild with enough end lvl players to form 2-3 groups on a weekend night running HMs. People DO use the /who function but its never going to work because puggers are lazy. Why bother scrolling down a list of names and FP names looking for potential players when you can just LFM or LFG it and let them come to you? The guild is aimed at PVE end game content. Most notably we're aiming at running 2 groups of 8 man OPs. Currently we're gearing up everyone by (surprise surprise!) Grinding instances. It also doesn't help that the only really useful drop is at the end of each FP where a columi class gear drops. I understand that the game is about story telling, but when you've FINISHED the story at lvl 50. Re-watching these cutscenes with the exact same dialogue feels like a complete waste of time. In reality it may only take up 3-5 mins of the whole FP run, but when your main aim for doing the FP is to get your commendations, help gear up guildies etc... These dialogue sections that make you "wait(ing) for other players" really distracts you from just wanting to burn through it. I also think you're undermining another big portion of what an MMORPG is. It's about getting the best possible gear thats available. Based on how these games are designed, how will you get these gears? (surprise surprise again!) by grinding it out and hoping that what you need drops. I am merely prospecting the idea of being able to choose between a normal and an abridged version if you will, of each FP run.

A community who provides constructive criticism is what moves a game forward. Not one who blindly praises or has blind faith in the developers for whatever they do. I'm not trying to say i'm smarter than everyone else in the forum, but I would like to see more people pitching out their ideas and how they see TOR can expand in the future. Afterall, these types of games and how they change is based on what the player base asks for.

I have a lvl 50 jugg. I disagree with the praise you give the story. Though it's not by any means a bad story, it wasn't particularly outstanding either. Chapter 1 was the best for me as it actually felt like some sort of a chase, a hunt. The rest and the ending of the story is very predictable and anyone could have seen it from Chapter 1 itself where everyone . It's an ok story, but nothing significant or particularly good about it I'm currently playing a BH at lvl 32. just finished chapter 1. It was pretty fun as well, I hope that the same momentum is kept throughout chapter 2 and 3.

I guess I really do need a TLDR version. I wasn't comparing it to WOTLK. I said that I had joined wow during WOTLK so there was already lots of content in it, however when comparing them I had tried to ignore what WOTLK offered. such as DKs as another playable class.

It's an interesting point you've raised and I do agree with some of them, however I have to mention that consequences are a major theme here. You don't have to commit genocide, make aggressive sexual remarks to Vette or keep her physicalled enslaved via a shock collar. The choice is yours and you can commit to them or not. I would like to however find some shred of 'goodness' if you will or justice within the empire. Seeing that the republic is full of corrupt politicians, I see no reason why Bioware didn't put in honorable generals or Siths who care more to preserve their own planet, family or race than to serve an emperor who is only talked about. I was fairly impressed with the events unfolding Belsavis and the unorthodox tactics the Republic used against the Empire. Before you say that the republic were there to save the slaves working in imperial factories. No... they weren't. They were there to disrupt and occupy a planet for production for the Empire. Saving the people is just an excuse to legitimize your invasion. Yet I couldn't find vice versa with the republic. There was no Empire force acting for the good of something or some sort of misunderstanding from the Republic on the actions of the Empire where they weren't actually committing genocide or enslaving others. I like to see the two factions as rather neutral, simply a clash of ideologies. It adds a touch of realism in the game. However what you get with the empire is a bunch of elitist sith jerks who boss around imperial forces while paying bounty hunters to do their dirty work.

I would like to start off by telling you that I am a fan of both games. I played wow for 2 years and am just over a month in tor with a Sith juggernaut lvl 50 and a BH merc lvl 32. - PLEASE NOTE - I joined Wow about a year after WOTLK was released and quit after I had completed and got most gear from ICC Heroic mode, so when I joined there was already a plethora of content in wow to keep me busy. So before you bash on me for saying that Wow has had more time to develop this stuff, I know they did. I'm simply pitching out some ideas that I have for the developers and the general community to think about. With that said, I can't help shake the feeling that TOR seems rather empty. The leveling process was tons of fun don't get me wrong. I loved the companions mechanism which made questing much more interesting not to mention the massive amounts of voice acting involved. However once I had reached lvl 50, done most of the HM FPs, the game lacks in content, depth and incentive to continue, though I do understand that this game is only 2 months old from release date anyway. Wow feels much deeper and of more content for several reasons. I will list them in order of significance (personal opinion) 1 Class and choice - Even before WOTLK, Wow has a total of 3 tank classes (druid, warr, pally), 4 healer classes (druid, pally, priest, shaman) and most importantly because it makes up most of the player base...9 dps classes (excluding DKs cause i'm refering to pre WOTLK). Not to mention 2 dps trees for druids, warriors, priests and shaman, 3 for mages, warlocks, rogues, hunters... Thats 3+4+9 = 16 playable "styles" as you will. TOR has 4 playable class races with 2 advanced choices and 3 trees each. there are 3 tank classes, (SW/JG, BH/TP, SI/JC), 3 healing classes, (BH/TP, OP/SM, SI/JC) and since every advanced class can choose a dps route, that's 8 dps classes to choose from. Thats 3+3+8 = 14 playable "styles". These numbers may seem similar, but when it comes down to the class itself, TOR is sorely lacking at 4 against WOW's 9. Even when you want to look at TOR with 8, the basics are still there for the advanced classes. Say I'm a BH power tech whos DPSing. A big portion of the skills you'll use are the same as a Mercenary. It feels similar and thats why I find TOR lacking in depth. In short, the lack of variety and diversity in playable classes severely limits what you can see or do in the game. 2 PVP - This is not a suggestion on how the PVP arenas can be improved in TOR as this thread is a comparison and an opinion as to why I think WOW has more depth than TOR. I love the styles of PVP TOR has, especially huttball. However once again Wow takes the winner with variety (thus depth) with PVP. customizable banners, huge castle sieges with vehicular battles, an arena battle that can go up to 5v5... Though the developers don't need to copy everything Wow does, some more innovation wouldn't hurt in this area. Especially when PVE is restricted by weekly/daily limitations. Stuff like pod racing, or a 1v1 dps race while on a small platform over some lava (like the anakin v obi wan battle in SW3) would help expand the universe so to speak. 3 continuous geographical setting - What I mean by this is that Wow felt larger than TOR. This is because Wow is one continuous continent while TOR is split up into multiple planets which each have only one single theme. Though some planets should only have one theme (such as Tatooine or Hoth), It simply doesn't feel as open world as WoW did. With the way TOR is set up, I don't really know of any solutions to this feeling of disjointedness. It is however something which does bother me a little yet continuously like a little fly buzzing about in the back of someone's room. 4 playable humanoid races - There are only 4 body types for each gender and only 4 (might be wrong) playable races for each class. With no distinctive physical attributes other than the 4 body types which are available for every race, everyone pretty much looks the same. There are such a variety of races in Wow each with their own physical attributes that a group looks diverse and full of difference. Taurens are massive imposing beasts, gnomes and dwarves are little critters who can pack a big punch, Trolls and orcs are hunch backs who speak funnily... humans, cyborgs, zabracks, chiss and all other playable races in TOR are... unfortunately pretty much the same. Sure they have different hair styles or skin colour, but those are easily concealed by the armor you wear. I would also like to have a choice of speaking language in TOR. It seems absurd but since the developers have already made such an effort of having alien languages recorded into the game, why not let the players choose which language they want to speak in based on which race they choose? Little things like these help diverse the playable universe and maybe even make dialogue a little quirkier. It is something which continuously baffles me since the SW universe has so many different races and species that this problem should easily be remedied. 5 lack of visual armor variety - If you didn't agree with me with the above 4 points, surely you agree with me on this one. I find it disappointing that end game PVP and PVE gear have the same look only with different colour. As if the developers thought that was sufficient enough, some of them look poorly designed. the Sith Warrior PVE gear does not look like a sith at all. It looks like some sort of cyborg Rakghoul. Something I would not want to be since I chose to be a sith; not a rakghoul with a lightsaber. These are just some reasons why I think Wow still has more depth in terms of immersion than TOR. Once again I do understand and realize that Blizzard has had much more time in developing and creating what Wow can offer for it's subscribers, but I think that these points should be taken into consideration by Bioware if they want to really overtake Wow and all it's glory. after all no matter how downward it's going right now, indisputably WoW has been on the throne of MMORPG for well over half a decade if not the full 8 years it has been online. TLDR version - 1 - Wow has more choice of classes than TOR. with only 4 base classes compared to Wow's 9 this department sorely lacks. 2 - The variety of what you can do when PvPing lacks in TOR in comparison to WoW. Would like to see arena etc 3 - the galaxy being composed of planets each with a single theme or identity contributes to a feeling of disjointedness as compared to how Wow is set up as a continuous piece of continent. Don't know how this feeling can be avoided though seeing the way the game is set up. 4 - Lack of playable races and body types (4 for each I believe) makes everyone feel and look the same. I'm sure they will change this in the future, but hey i'm just pitching the idea out there and seeing what you guys bounce back to me. 5 - end game armor for PVP and PVE sorely lacks design. change in color I don't think is enough to distinguish a set of Columi from Tionese armor... Please feel free to comment and give your opinions or even add to some of my points. Thanks, Cownchicken

I know that the story is crucial to TOR, but when we're running BT for the 10th time, I would really like to skip the story and just go to the battle and jump out when the last boss is killed. No light side/dark side choices or dialogue choices. Just a simple run through. Do you think the devs would take this option into consideration? please feel free to comment and add to my point