You and I differ greatly on our definition of PvP.

This has come up in EVERY game that has had open world PvP. 1.) Someone camps lowbies. 2.) Someone brings it up on the forums. 3.) Someone posts the blurb above. 4.) Person doing the camping is repremanded in game (usually just a shove-off by the GMS). 5.) Elite Guards are now placed in even more areas because of people doing this.

God, you remind me of a Sabetour in Rift. "Any GOOD Sab will use more than just sticky bomb (can't remember the skill name) and detonate. We use LOTS of skills." That's not the point. Get that through you're head. I don't care how many buttons you COULD use. The point is that it is perfectly plausible for a person using 1 button to, seemingly, put out as much DPS as some builds good rotations. There are reasons we don't have combat logs. I'm guessing this is one of them. It's a broken skill. You keep defending it in the context as the entire rotation. Good for you. You use other skills. That doesn't fix the fact that this one skill is broken.

That's the problem, a mechanic like this is retarded because the actual ability to apply buffs/debuffs/proper rotation is damn near impossible to balance. If it hits to hard, it's going to be abused as an end-all, be all attack, not to mention before building up you're actual other abilities, it hits pretty dang hard. If it hits to weak, you're dependent on your "finishers" or reactive abilities to pop and attack, and you'll be at a distinct disadvantage if a player is paying attention. If its too quick a cast time, players will just spam it. If it's too long a cast time, players won't have time to build up before being killed. Using one ability as a pre-req to an entire rotation is a dumb mechanic in PvP (ask Sabs in Rift).

Hell, I'll do you one better. Here you go: 1.) Pre 1.1, Operatives should have been nerfed. I'm a 50 Operative, Hyper Space Cannon, and there was not a class when stacking buffs I couldn't kill in 6 seconds if crits broke my way. Even then, You weren't getting far. Tell me why the nerf should not have happened. 2.) Tracer Missle Spam is retarded. I don't care if it's to set-up their other abilities. It's moronic, and the skill needs nerfed. It should be MMO PvP law, "Thou shall not have a class that has one and only one skill define it." Good ones don't do this, I get that, but the skill itself, outside of it's debuff/set-up, is moronic. It needs fixed. The skill needs nerfed, the class needs it's mechanics fixed. Tell me why I'm wrong. 3.) Another MMO PvP Rule - YOU DO NOT TAKE AWAY CONTROL! You can not take away control from a character. You can't. It's moronic. When you're facing 6/8 Sorcs in a Warzone and you're trying to cross the bridge in Voidstar, good luck. One's gonna knock you off. Or into fire in Huttball. Or pulled/force pushed somewhere. These abilities are just as bad as the buffed Op's pre 1.1. It's an instant kill. People whining for the nerfs are correct in one respec, it needs changed, because it's dumb. But their wrong in where they place the blame. But I can work with that. You pointed out a flaw, be it incorrectly, and it's truely a problem. It's not an idea of a straight nerf, it needs changed though. They are cries for nerfs that point out bigger issues with the games design/mechanics. It's not anyones fault but yours if you can't identify them through the nerf cries. And P.S. - Pre 1.1, I'd have smoked your ***. You'd better thank all those "Nerf Criers".

Very nice, and what I would expect on these forums. Call the analogy a poor one without refuting it. If there was a way to roll a new forum avatar to be a better poster, I'd assume you'd do so now. You seem like that type of person to look for an advantage. Not to mention the absolute hypocrisy of your post with regards to the first two sentences, and then the hyperbole you use in your last to stress your point. Well played. No refute, and yet use the same hyperbole as you accuse me of. 10/10. Your post is a shining beacon of why MMO PvP now sucks. It's you guys. Everyone defending this thread. Every one of you are ruining PvP. You've accepted piss-poor. Are there pathetic players that cry "NERF" at every corner? Sure there are. They are just as guilty. But I would rather hear 10,000 cries on the forums as long as 10 of them are correct in their arguments, instead of dead silence when there are obvious crappy mechanics and features like you suggest. But to lump everyone in is moronic. Even past that, you're ruining the genre. You're killing PvP, and you don't care because at THIS moment, it's probably benefiting you. Stop. Seriously, stop. There are valid issues being raised on these threads. From mechanics (Buff stacking should have NEVER made it to live), Warzone design (Huttball, really?), to class mechanics in said warzones (Please, one of you tell me you don't have an advantage as certain builds compared to others in Huttball. I Mean, a DRASTIC advantage), to the implementation of Resolve (DR anyone. It's like Frost Shock all over again), to class skills as a whole (for example, level an Op healer through PvP. You can seriously be nearly locked out of healing until lvl 30), Open World PvP (Illum, real fun, yea), to the RNG for gear progression (good idea there). I can go on if you'd like. But no. You'd rather stick your heads in the sand. Accept crap. Don't worry, everyone will keep playing. They will. And it will never get any better. Bravo guys. Bravo indeed.

Tell you what. I'm a terrible driver. I really am. I'm guessing you're better than me. We'll race cars. For $1,000,000,000. You get 10 tries. That should be enough for you to "learn" my tendencies. Learn about your car. How it handles. How it accelerates. You'll get to learn about my car. All of it's features. It's strengths. It's weaknesses. One catch. I get to race in a ferrari. You get a 91' Accord with a blown engine. I mean, if you're that good, and can learn from your mistakes, the tools provided shouldn't matter, right?

I will quit everytime I enter Huttball. Then again, Huttball shouldn't really be considered PvP, so maybe a penalty isn't warrented.

Just had it happen to us. Didn't figure it out until they were at the force fields guarding the final doors. We were defending, and then the alarm sounds. We look around with not an Imp in sight. I've tried defending this game. I love the leveling aspect, but unless I find a good guild, I'm just playing until "The Secret World" comes out. If I'm going to play a buggy, crap game, I'm going to play one that I EXPECT to be buggy and crappy. Not one I had expectations for.

Sabs in Rift at launch would like to have a word with you. And those were some TOTALLY skilled players as well, at least they wanted you to think that. And then, when they actually removed the retarded mechanics, miraculously they all rerolled RiftBlades or whatever they were called (warrior calling). Because they were totally balanced as well and it took skill to play like everyone of them freaking did. The MMO cycle of PvP continues on.

Hell, we all know how they work. Too freaking well.

It isn't a mystery. It's common sense. If I race my Kia Sorento in a Nascar race, guess what? I'm going to lose. Now, I don't know anything about those cars. I don't know how fast they actually go. I don't know about the engine, the tires, nothing. But I know my car is not nearly on the level to compete as theirs are. Sure, you could tell me "L2DRIVE!!!!". Or, "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE OTHER CARS WORK. YOU ACTUALLY HAD A CHANCE!". Sure I did, if the driver didn't know what they were doing and ran into a brick wall. But if I'm just as good a driver as the other guys, they just have a better tool at their disposal to get the job done. On equal footing, all things aren't equal. You don't have to have exact numbers in some cases. If you want me to come up with the Optimum DPS rotation for my Op? Yea, I'm gonna need to see some logs. You want me to point out obvious issues? Just let me use a little common sense and prior experience, and I can do a damn fine job.

I've said this before, but I still think it holds true: I know, it isn't level 50 (OMG THAT'S WHEN BALANCE MATTERS!!), but not everyone is going to level each class to 50 to see the imbalance, and they don't have to if they have some common sense (I have a lvl 50 Op, so I'd love to talk about that as well). BUT, go start 2 new characters. One Inq/Sage. One IA/Smuggler. Get to level 10. Start leveling via the healing tree. At level 14 (after you get sprint, I don't wanna see players without it in freaking Warzones. It should be a level 10 talent anyway) go PvP. Yea, it's waaaay early in the game, but this will give you a general idea of where balance in this game currently is. Don't worry, I can verify that without a premade group, these imbalances hold true at level 50, both in PvE and PvP. I'm guessing most players that rolled a Sorc "healer" won't make it passed level, eh 25 as an Op healer. You'll then see how much of a crutch the class actually provides.

Then how can a Sorc say they aren't over powered compared to other classes? Goes both ways.

Level up a healer Operative/Smuggler through PvP.