If they had someone 5 levels or more lower than what they were fighting with them, then they would lose valor also. Thats why I said lower OR higher. Exploits will always happen, its just the nature of some people, but this would minimize it somewhat.

I doubt any of this will happen, but I'll post it anyways. Its obvious by now that BioWare is clueless when it comes to open world PvP. 17 planets and on only 8 can PvP ever take place, and even then BW has done all they could to keep the factions separate. The Black Hole dailies could have been an excellent stage to promote PvP, but no, it doesn't happen. The plague world event, should have been a good PvP event, but no, I actually saw more PvP on a PvE server than I did on my normal PvP server. Thats mostly on the players, but BW shares some of the blame. Why isn't there PvP on the planets where its possible? Easy, no reward. I understand BW's reasoning, they don't want people exploiting valor gains by ganking lowbies and lowbies getting griefed makes unhappy customers. Easy fix, have a system where if your opponent is 5 levels lower OR higher than you that you actually get negative valor. This will penalize people griefing lowbies and people farming higher level toons on their lowbies via 2 boxing. More complicated would be a way to divide valor gains from kills equally. A soloer should get more valor than someone grouped up. This will promote solo and small group play over a 24 man Op just laying waste to a planet. Make all PvE dailies on Ilum, Corellia, and Belsavis have a PvP component. This is more for WZ's than a open world solution. Patch in an in game voice system and Op target assist so everyone can attack the same designated target and aid in warning that X locale needs help. This will give the solo queuers a fighting chance against pre-mades and give the pre-mades more of a challenge. Have a game wide channel so if one of the planets are being over run by a faction the opposite faction can respond. Give buffs to the outnumbered faction or have a faction limit on planets. BW dropped the ball at launch when it comes to faction imbalances. They did a great job at balancing populations on planets as a whole, but they should have factored in faction balance into the equation.

You can win and get nothing also. I was in Huttball that lasted less than 5 minutes, we won 6-0, I got zilch out of it. ./shrug

What would you, the peeps that are leaving, have BW do? Released an unfinished product just so you can have your precious rateds? Because thats exactly what most gaming companies would do. Personally, I don't care about rateds, its not what I or most of my former guild consider enjoyable PvP. The lack of viable open world PvP is what drove them away. I'm staying for one reason, there's still stuff for me to do. I'm as hard core of a PvPer as any of you, but I don't limit myself to PvP for one simple truth that most PvPers find hard to swallow. Hard core PvPers are a small, niche group. A hugely vocal group, but small one none the less compared to casuals and PvEers. If you people don't come to terms with that you will forever be disappointed. Just be happy that we are valued more, slightly more, than the Role Play community.

So whats with the SW's floating in WZ's? I know you've seen it. They glide around in a crouched position.

Ohaider Slither. If the game is out of hand I prefer to keep one turret and then dance!!

My stats are pretty close to yours except endurance and therefor morale. Which implants and focus are you using? Is anyone hot swapping stalker/survivor gear to get thr 4 and 2 set bonuses respectively?

LOL, I'm a lifer, but not sure I can bring myself to return there, at least not permanently.

I find it funny that all these 1337, hardcore, PvPers think that WZ's are actual PvP, they are a diversion at best. 1.2 is destroying what little open world PvP there is with nothing to replace it with. Ilum is a joke, I get that, Outlaws Den.....*** are they doing with OD? I came from a game that made us play in the same zone for PvP for 4+ years, I'm not settling for 4 WZ's that don't require a brain to participate. I want open world PvP where tactics, movement, and the element of surprise allow a tight knit smaller group dominate a larger group, not through OP classes or superior gear, but through afore mentioned tactics and movement. As it is now looks as though my guild will look somewhere else, its a shame too, ToR is a fun game.

I used Khem until I got Andro, not because Khem was bad, but because I'm a tankasin and having 2 tanks made killing things slower. Khems fine, L2Play

Maybe including that you swap stances would have had made a difference in his reply. When not given all the facts one is forced to assume. I run a Darkness/Madness hybird and swap stances. I don't do crazy damage, but I'm usually in the top 3 in objectives in WZ's. I could double or even triple my damage going full Madness, but I like survivibility and utility over topping damage. In PvE I tank, so damage isn't my primary concern.

So you blame Bioware because some tools on the OP's server are a bunch of EZmoders? Lets blame McDonalds because you are fat too while we are at it ./facepalm To all you trolls, please cancel your subs and go back to WoW. I don't want you in my game.

I was out for around 2 hours on the day of the original patch. I went from almost rank 29 to mid 32 in that time. I got my daily 30 kills and stayed until I got my weekly 150 kills. It was basically a Mexican standoff on my server (Warriors of the Shadow) and it appeared that rebels were outnumbered about 1.5:1, not the 5:1 or 10:1 thats been posted. We wouldn't have gotten any kills if it wasn't for tank classes like mine that could force pull. The most I got was 200 valor a kill when Imps owned everything, but it was consatntly changing due to rebels flipping the hotspots. Just that tells you numbers weren't skewed too badly. They had enough to keep us out of the base and could still flip hotspots. I died at least 10 times so rebels were getting kills too. I think someone has an agenda by spreading these rumors, maybe some game companies are getiing nervous. Everyone knows how these things take a life of their own in the tight-knit gaming community and the PvP community is very prone to hyberpole. I've read some rather silling things lately like how Bioware favors Imps over Rebels. Does anyone realize how insane that is? They care about us equally AS PAYING CUSTOMERS, as NUMBERS ON A BALANCE SHEET. Some of you need to stop playing games and reconnect with how things work in THE REAL WORLD.

Who are you to bring logic into this!!!! Why with this kind of unbiased reasoning you could ruin politics as we know it!!!

./signed. Remember, Bioware is kinda new to MMO's, Rift had the exact same problem at launch, it will eventually be fixed, as frustrating as it is.