One Thing we definetely Need is a passive 30% AoE dmg reduction. Compared to marauders or powertechs juggernauts are sub-par again in every aspect of the game. as a heavy armor wearing class i see no sense in us taking more sustained dmg than a medium armor wearing class. uuuhm one Thing i'd like to know: is it forbidden to spread datamined stuff (not by myself but by a well known reddit user^^) in These Forums so we can talk about some 'facts'? to summerize things up: The datamined Facts render juggernauts as one of the worst (if not THE worst) dps classes in pve (again).

Definetely approved, this is one of the most important QoL functions in many other MMOs. Should have been implemented long ago.

Agreed but asking for nerfs for other classes can be considered problematic^^

This thread is about juggernaut dps, i don't Dispute that there are many other class Balance Problems but they should be discussed in seperate threads^^ If jugs do 3,65k and anni marauders do 3,7 i'd be absolutely Content with that lol. But sadly those values i've posted have been taken from the current PTS build and that includes the procc already being fixed afaik.

So with high crit luck we are doing as well as marauders will do average. Juggernaut (average): 3600. Marauder (average): 3900. Juggernaut (lucky): 3950 Marauder (lucky): 4200 Not cool.

You are comparing those classes' specific spec to a whole class. AP and Deception are doing bad? Well, they can still spec to pyro and madness and Keep their raid Slot / viability. Juggernaut will be subpar with either vengeance or rage. Just fix every class before you look into specific specs.

Metaphor for shutting SW:ToR down?

Ok let's finish the discussion^^ http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7122422#edit7122422 you'll have to Change your guide^^ really nice that they do it with 2.6!

Yea, sadly only 25.76% crit. imagine 40% crit *slobbering*

Thx ssfish, im a Little undecicive if i should agree. if you priorize shatter/impale over fs you will often find yourself in a Situation where fs has only 1 stack or even no stack :/ personally i priorize FS(2 stacks)>shatter>impale>FS(less than 2 stacks and other abilities more that 1 GCD away). Just a few thoughts about jugger theorycrafting: When determining the optimal Rotation/priorization one can view it from two different Point of views: 1) resource Generation effectivenes 2) ability damage effectiveness (dot uptime, hardest hiting abilities priorization > soft hiters) The real optimal priorization should represent both aspects. But there is one Little Problem that makes theorycrafting or even Simulation next to impossible: The unpredictable proc behavior of ravage and vicious throw. Each ravage proc bridges the time until the next sundering assault, each vicious throw generates rage upon usage and (very importantly one stack for force scream). So from 1) Point of view ressource Generation is heavily reliant on our procs and thus not absolutely predictable for it matters WHEN we get the procs. Ability damage and Overall dps (2) are directly and mostly affected by ravage itself. => though dummy parsing is the (at least in my opinion) more viable method of determining the optimal ability priorization, it seems not to be a very reliable tool because not only do our procs affect our dmg done but also our Rotation. Example: Generally, from a simple ability dmg pov it should be shatter > force scream (2 stacks!) > impale. BUT this will often lead to a Situation where you are about to use FS next but only have 1 stack to buff it. So you want to priorize impale over it in order to get the 2nd stack. On the other Hand this doesnt come to be if you have a vicious throw proc that also creates the 2nd stack. So this proc heavily messes around with our priorization and ressource Generation what makes juggernaut dps a Little unsimulatable. Only Thing we have left is empirical testing which sorts out to be rng reliant aswell.

Hmmmmm recently did a 3413k dps parse (4:51 @ 1mio hp) with impale > shatter. 10min. later I had a 3419 dps parse (4:51 @1mio) with shatter > impale.... to be honest. it doesnt seem to matter. combined ravage proc+crit luck is everything. i'd favor shatter > impale in bossfights for the reasons i mentioned: if you have to move and only have time for applying one of the two dots you'll want the heavier ticking (=shatter) before moving. hopefully they'll rework juggernaut/Guardian next patch.. really tired of seeing this luck dependency

Níhlus - Sith-Juggernaut - Vengeance - 04/36/06 - 04'51.743 Torparse link: http://www.torparse.com/a/555758 AMR link: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/643614b7-20e8-4a26-90a2-758077fad376

Right. Please correct your Rotation, impale on top is not the way to go in Boss fights for shatter cannot be mitigated by armor and leaves a heavy dot (dont know how to express that: if u have just 1 GCD left before moving you want your gcd to be used by shatter and not impale to leave the heavy ticking dot effect.) additionally whenever i priorize impale over shatter i do about 100dps less (dummy testing). Could you repeat it for me? I have never read anything about that on these forums!

Jep, right.

Really nice guide, about time that juggernaut theorycrafting revives ^^ now a serious dps buff is the only thing thats missing Personally I prioritize shatter > impale for its the harder hiting abilitiy and does very reliable dmg via its bleeds. impalte hits hard but its bleeds are a joke. the main issue I had with testing is the ridiculous dependency of combined proc+crit luck but average I think im getting slightly better results with shatter > impale. Additionally I'd recommend kicking Smash out once the execution phase begins and use assault instead, giving u one more rage for more VTs. Btw. when relying on dummy parses we should - in order to smooth rng out - only take parses that include at least 10 tries and take the average value.