WELL, it's 19 pages late but I agree with you. It's funny too, because I have loved BW games since Baldur's Gate (though they've been slipping noticeably since they got bought by EA, ME2/DA2 were disappointing), loved Star Wars since I was a little kid, and I've loved MMOs since I played EQ when I was 11-12... and therein lies the problem. While I didn't really experience the "MMO virginity" problem since I got that same feeling out of EQ, SWG, and WoW, I am definitely searching for it now. I'm not one of those people that thinks it can never be found, but this game definitely doesn't do it for me. Which is sad really, because I had a lot of faith in BW to get it done. And maybe they did, for a lot of people. Just not for me. The game world just doesn't feel alive like it did when I played those games. It feels all contrived and boxed in. Oh well.

On the topic of skill as opposed to time requirements, has the OP ever heard of the 10000 hours rule? I doubt it's been scientifically proven but the concept is that it takes 10000 hours of doing something, aka repetition, to become an expert at it. Does not that apply to MMOs as well? People always talk about Starcraft (which is undeniably a very "skillful" game) and say the major reasons Koreans are better at it is because they play and practice more than "foreigners" (anyone not Korean). Sometimes 10+ hours a day. Doesn't the same apply to MMOs? Perhaps to a lesser degree, but still.

People playing MMOs for solo content is the most baffling thing I've ever seen.

not hard, since kotor 2 was a fantastic yet underrated game. This game will survive more than one year no problem, but will it live up to the expectations of its publisher and its developer? I don't believe so.

it took me about 2 days 10-12 hours if I remember correctly. Spacebarred pretty much everything since I'd leveled a consular before back in beta (was in beta starting last July, tried not to get too burnt out on the game).

The story portion is cool, it's just that, if you really really want story, there's plenty of single player games with superior story that also function better mechanically as well. I could go back and play through Witcher 2 since I've only done that once, or I could replay ME1/ME2 in preparation for ME3, or in a few days I can play Kingdoms of Amalur, all of which IMO have superior stories and mechanically are more fun (from a single player perspective) than SWTOR. The class stories, while different, are actually a minority of your overall quests. Most of the quests in this game (and therefore, the story element) are shared between classes and are the exact same every single playthrough. The linearity of this game is astounding in the fact that the order of planets is the exact same every single time (only differing from faction to faction). That doesn't really make replayability a very fun option.

GOOD THING THAT LEVELING SURE LASTED A LONG TIME oh wait If the best part of your game is located in the finite leveling process I think you might be doing it wrong. Where's all the story at 50?

WoW had that, in vanilla and BC. They removed it in WotLK at the behest of the "community". The terminology I see being used for this new style of MMO is "game lobby" MMO. It's basically like using a game lobby for any other multiplayer game. You hit some interface options, it automatically takes you to the map you want to play, and you play without ever actually talking to anyone. SWTOR is pretty much that. PvP definitely is, Ilum aside since it's a complete piece of garbage, it's 100% through the UI. Back in vanilla and BC WoW, there was the queue system but you had to go to battlemaster or arena NPCs that were in specific areas. For PvE there's no auto-port or auto-group like there is in WoW, but it's pretty close. You never have to leave the fleet for anything beyond the two FPs on Ilum. That's what caused me to quit WoW, there was nothing left to force people to expand their boundaries. How many great players would, if they started today, never become the players they did because the game didn't push them? How many friends would I have never made because either they or I would not have done what we did because we simply wouldn't have had to? How many great experiences would I not have had because I could just sit in one place all day and never have to break my comfort zone, never talk with anyone, never expend any sort of effort? Old school MMOs sometimes made you do things you didn't really want to do, or didn't think you wanted to or could do, and you ended up really enjoying those things (or not, which is totally OK). Today's MMOs cringe at the thought of having someone do something they might not enjoy, or depriving someone of something simply because they don't want to try. I guess that's progress.

or any type of rated pvp (rated warzones work just fine), though I would prefer arena as well. Then make it the primary form of PvP progression with all new tiers of PvP gear being obtained specifically through success in rated PvP through a token/point system where you earn points based off your rating every week. Basically, BW just needs to copy paste WoW even more, they already did it with PvE so why not? This completely negates all the valor exploiting and creates an environment where legitimate competition can take place

Sitting at 11% expertise project only ever crit for 5k+ with stacked consumables. Now you're lucky to get 5k.

From WoW, have grown more and more disenchanted with Blizzard since mid-WotLK, don't have an active sub. Unfortunately SWTOR plays very similar to Cataclysm so I'm debating on whether or not to pay for a subscription. I certainly won't be going back to WoW since I don't enjoy it anymore, however SWTOR hasn't been that exciting either.

CTRA had boss mods back in vanilla and DBM was renamed (originally La Vendetta Boss Mods, after the creators guild). Also, Bigwigs was around in BC. Here's an example of DBM (la vendetta) from well before the date listed on curse http://www.gamefront.com/files/6745189/Deadly_Boss_Mods__La_Vendetta__v2_40 Doubt curse is very accurate with when mods were actually started or created. edit: Here's an even better example from my own personal screenshots, june 07, showing both boss mods and a threat meter. They existed in vanilla as well, trust me. http://i.imgur.com/fBEbP.jpg

With 25 man, environmental issues are exacerbated because you're working in the same area of space with over twice as many people, so fights with large AOE or things of that nature make it far easier to make mistakes on 25 man, meaning they need to be more recoverable. An example would be Defile from the Lich King fight. Same amount of space, more than 2x the people, more chances that someone stands in a defile too long. Some fights are harder on 10, some are easier. The organizational aspects of 10 man are far far easier assuming good class balance in PvE. Raid stacking is something that I don't consider as that's a luxury usually only available to top tier guilds regardless of their chosen raid size (hard to get willing bench warmers if you're not at the extreme cutting edge of progression).

what I read: "I'm tired of losing, so instead of doing something about it myself, I'm going to quit until BW does something about it. I hate having to interact with other human beings and I shouldn't have to!" Is it seriously that hard to find 3 other good people? To talk to other human beings? Is it that onerous a task? If you don't like losing, you have options available to you to prevent that. Sad thing is, BW probably will eventually remove the ability to queue as a group because they don't want people to actually have to try.

fixed that for ya. I can't stand EVE. At least in other MMOs the gap between players can be closed relatively quickly if the new player is skilled.