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Narcistic

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  1. Fail troll is fail. We killed it last night as well. As a sorc DPS I had to pop health stim, bubble, rakata medpac and still barely survived (only 20k health). But yeah rough fight and felt good to get it done pre-nerf.
  2. @Xenofire I understand your comments and your personal opinion towards 8man vs 16man. And you throw heavily around that 16 people are harder to control then 8. You also referenced at one point that 25 man raids in WotLK. So my question for you.. If 16 mans are so difficult to coordinate and control then would I and many others be considered amazing players because we could coordinate 40 man raids in Vanilla WoW? Or coordinate 15 man Scholomance runs or Living/Undead Strat? UBRS? That is what Vent/Mumble/TS3 are used for to create a outlet for coordination. That is why I feel that the argument based on "Getting 16 people to play a game is hard" falls short. There are still MMO's that require raid groups of more then 16. If you cannot put together a group of 16 people who play well or try to perfect themselves in their playing ability and min/maxing and or listening it isn't because '16man' is harder. That is your responsibility to field a group of 16 who can listen and coordinate. If you can't field a group of 16 listening players then go down to 8 man because im sure you can field 8 listening players. I respect your opinion but I think and from what I read a lot of your posts lean on 16 man is harder to coordinate and for some people it probably is but that is their decision to raid with 14 competent players and 2 idiots just to make a 16 man raid.
  3. All I am saying is that you present me a opinion, a statement, where as I can show you math to back up my accusations.
  4. Here's our damage meters: 1. Did you kill the boss? a. Yes - > Go to 2. b. No - > Start back at 1. 2. Did most of the raid die? a. Yes - > Clean up your strategy. b. No - > Keep current strategy and go to 3. 3. Did you reach enrage timer? a. Yes - > Fine tune your raid. Is it gear? Is it a person? Figure it out. b. No - > Farm next week, great now get purples. And yes you can easily tell if it is a person. If you suspect someone not pulling their weight, ask them to step out for someone else for your next weeks attempts and see if anything changes.
  5. Most of you are wasting your breath. People know 8man is more difficult for most fights in the game. There is hard math that can prove it. I have it built out into a spread sheet in fact that shows the DPS required for each fight for each difficulty for each size. I have asked numerous times for a 16 man guild to provide me actual data to work with to prove that 16man is harder then 8man but none can. I think its hilarious how blinded people are after the Dev's have already said TWICE that 8man is meant to be harder then 16man. Because they give 16man some lee way for putting together 16 folks. We were 10/10 NM 8man on our server for over a month prior to the 16man guilds because they got stuck on SOA. The same SOA fight that can be killed with 8-10 folks or less in 16man. We had 2 8man teams, 1 8man team was our main group 10/10 NM. Our 2nd 8man was working their way through Normal to gear up and learn the fights. We had some folks leave and make our 2nd 8man made up of mostly casual players difficult to run. We pulled them into one group to make a 16man and see what all the "harder" fuss was about. We walked through HM 16man EV because these folks never did full normal EV clear and we 1 shot everything, it was an absolute joke. Next week we will be doing Nightmare 16man just to make sure... Tonight we are doing Nightmare 16 Karagga's. We are pretty sure this will be a joke as well. I will fill you all in tomorrow about it and afterwards I will have had done 16man and 8man nightmare Karaggas and I will know which is harder.... *edit* We quit the argument and trying to show people that 8man is indeed harder because people are so stubborn to the math. Apparently hard data and numbers aren't weighed as much as personal opinions.
  6. So you want to make 16man Nightmare harder then 8man Nightmare? As it stands we will consider Normal mode Damage a 1, Hard mode Damage a 2, Nightmare Damage a 3. And the reason for this is because the gear is the same so the damage for 16man Nightmare cannot exceed that of 8man Nightmare and vice versa. SOA As it stands now: 8Man Group - 1 MT/1 OT // 4 DPS // 2 Healers Phase 1 Ground- Lightning Casts. Phase 2 Platforming- Nothing Special. Phase 3 Ground- 1 Mindtrap, 1 Person being flung, 2 Orbs. Phase 4 Platforming- Nothing Special. Phase 5 Ground- 1 Mindtrap, 2 Orbs. Damage Level: 3 Soa Health Pool(Estimated/Rounded): 1,100,000 HP. Mind Trap Health Pool: 25,000 HP. Let's say the Tank/OT's damage is not counted and your relying on DPS solely for the damage output variables, each DPS has to put out 275,000 damage minimum if each carried their own weight. In Phase 3, 3 people out of the 8 people in the raid are breaking orbs, being thrown, mind trapped. In Phase 5, 3 people out of your 8 people are breaking orbs (DPS loss on boss during shield phase), in a mind trap (if your group didn't get it down in time or switch for shield phase). In truth the only person you can lose and afford the death is your OT. And even then in Phase 5 if your MT gets yanked by a Mind Trap, Game Over try again. In reality losing 1-2 people for most guilds is a wipe and start over. SOA As it stands now: 16Man Group: 1 MT/1 OT // 10 DPS // 4 Healers Phase 1 Ground- Lightning Casts. Phase 2 Platforming- Nothing Special. Phase 3 Ground- 1 Mindtrap, 1 Person being flung, 3 Orbs. Phase 4 Platforming- Nothing Special. Phase 5 Ground- 1 Mindtrap, 2 Orbs. Damage Level: 3 As you can see above there is only 1 mechanic that changes. Soa Health Pool(Estimated/Rounded): 2,080,000 HP. Mind Trap Health Pool: 25,000 HP. Let's say the Tank/OT's damage is not counted and your relying on DPS solely for the damage output variables, each DPS has to put out 208,000 damage minimum if each carried their own weight. In Phase 3, 4 people out of the 16 people in the raid are breaking orbs, being thrown, mind trapped. In Phase 5, 3 people out of your 16 people are breaking orbs (DPS loss on boss during shield phase), in a mind trap (if your group didn't get it down in time or switch for shield phase). In truth you could lose 2 DPS (8/10 DPS left) at the very beginning of the fight and each DPS would then only have to put out 260,000 still 15,000 shy of an 8man raid comp. So even with doubled the DPS you are still only putting out 260,000 per DPS compared to an 8man of 275,000 per DPS. You still have double the healers despite the damage level remaining a solid 3 same as 8man. I have seen guilds down 16man nightmare soa with only 6-7 people left alive. That would equate out to a 8man guild being able to down nightmare soa final phase with only 4-5 people alive. How to change this to make 16man as difficult or more difficult then 8man: 1.)Soa 16 Nightmare Health pool would have to be: 2,750,000 HP. To be harder then 8man he would need: 3,000,000 HP to 3,200,000 HP. (2,750,000/10= 275,000 per DPS. Same as 8man) 2.)Different gear. Health pools for this fight would have to exceed 23k-24k for non tank characters and 25k-29k for tank characters. 4.5k Orb tick + Orb Explosion for 8k (Current) 12.5k + 4.5k Orb tick (to account for server/client lag) 17k(Current). So you make it harder and scale it up with 16man. 5.5k Orb Tick + Orb Explosion for 10k= 15.5k + 5.5k (to account for server/client lag) 21k. 3.) More Mechanics. Instead of placing pools on the outside at phase 1. Maybe he wouldn't be in a static position and you'd have to kite and move your raid group. Maybe 2 Mind traps instead of 1. Or increase the health on the mindtraps to 75k and increase the time between mind traps. 4 balls in phase 3 and 3 in phase 5. 1 Ball in each corner of the room. I know the usual answers to what I posted above "Yeah well you don't run 16man" or "The rooms the same size for 16man and 8man" Well your right, you are very much correct. But last I remember there is no clipping in this game so in reality you can all group up and stack and make your 16man as small as a 8man because you don't have to watch for any debuffs on you. Just have to watch for your name to be called and you move. Anyways my 2 cents and to put things in perspective for people wanting 16man to be as hard or harder and to see how much work would have to be done.
  7. Haha my point gets proven even more. I don't need to step into a 16man to be 'proven' correct. Shoot I've watched a LIVE STREAM of a mediocre guild lost 5 people (16man NM EV on SOA) and still manage to kill him because numbers are in their favor with (11 people still alive). By my 'Napkin' math that would mean that 8man NM should be able to kill SOA with... 5-6 people alive? Nope. Good try. Because those 2-3 deaths on 8man were either your Tank/Healers/Or half/majority of your DPS. So wait a minute 8man is 'suppose' to be easier but yet it allows for nearly no mistakes. But 16man is SUPER OMG HARD but you can down content with nearly half the poeple in the raid dead. Once again in an 16 man raid you can have 4-5 healers depending on the fight. 9-10 DPS because you are terribad if you hit enrage timers having to put out LESS DPS then an 8man OPS. And 1-2 tanks depending on the fight. With the simple fact that Melee Operatives can Heal, Sorcerers can toss out Heals/shields (all be it not as powerful) and Mercs can toss out heals if the damage is so crazy then have your people learn to be better players and help out the healers. Also SOA doesn't even double the health pool of the an 8man raid. Well possibly Barely in NM but you still have 6 more dps? So if you really wanna compare 16man difficulty and 8man difficulty try running 4 tanks 8 dps and 4 healers because that is a 8man ops group doubled. Some of you keep talking but until I see 'napkin' math like mine all your doing is spewing stuff you hear in other threads and its not spewing from your mouth. So as I said prior, the gear is the same, the health pools are the same so bosses aren't doing 'extra' damage in 16man then 8man aside from Soa's extra lightning orb for 1 phase. The damage needed SHOULD be the same except for the fact that you have 10 dps and we have 4. Healing shouldn't be an issue with 2 Sorc pools, merc heals, op heals or double op heals considering the damage is the same as 8man. The only difference thus far I have seen in 16man is the trash, TRASH! is harder and will wipe your group if not properly taken care of. But last I remember Trash doesn't matter.
  8. Yes, NM 8M has been cleared for awhile now - between NM Karaggas and NM EV We spend about 2 and half hours. What I am asking you is instead of saying "16M is harder then 8M" furnish math. I am just asking for numbers to prove this statement. Because what I see is 6 more DPS and 2 more healers and the health pool is not *doubled* but yet you have 6 more DPS. 3 lightning orbs spawn instead of 2 for one phase, but you have 2 extra healers. I am just saying that instead of making broad statements, show me numbers. Because my 8M rakata gear is the same rakata gear you have in 16m. I DO KNOW that trash is significantly harder in 16man then 8man. I do know that the pylon adds are significantly harder in 16man then 8 man. It is the tuning of the trash. But last I remember you don't base a difficulty on trash, you base the difficulty on boss fights.
  9. Although I do agree, I discredit the OP's post stating that 16man is harder then 8man. I am sorry but has everyone stopped doing math since this game released? Currently 8man is tuned higher difficulty then 16man(Based on a 8man group of 1MT/1OT 4 DPS 2 Healers and a 16man group with 1MT/1OT 10 DPS 4 Healers). The damage that is done between 8man SOA Nightmare and 16man SOA Nightmare from SOA to the Tank/From the Orbs to the player/Being thrown around is the same. It couldn't be different because the gear is the same for 16man and 8man meaning that both groups will be comprised of equal gear, equal health, equal damage. Yes Nightmare SOA has 1 more ball. Fact. Nightmare SOA 16 - 2,100,000 HP with 10 DPS is 210,000 damage per DPS (If everyone was equal and pulled their own weight) Nightmare SOA 8 - 1,084,000 HP with 4 DPS is 271,000 damage per DPS (If everyone was equal and pulled their own weight) Also 16man has the SAME MECHANICS AS 8MAN. 1 Mind Trap with 25k health, 1 person being flung, 2 people with lightning balls (3 in Nightmare, but phase three drops to 2). I understand the argument of getting 16 monkeys to click the keyboard but seriously. 4 more healers? 6 more DPS? More room for error? End the 16man is harder vs 8man it gets annoying to discredit guilds who run 8man content.
  10. I love this game. I really do. I have great hopes for it in the future and understand that these issues happen with 'most' mmo's. My issues with SOA in particular are these.. -Random Ball Damage: Our healer and myself have ran through the balls at full health and took only about 1000 damage TOTAL on Nightmare. And then we have other attempts where we will run through the orb and get one shot. We aren't near the 2nd orb and SOA isn't targeting us. The whole point of PVE is to understand a fights mechanic and being able to anticipate with Tank Guards and Shields and Pre-healing/Hots on the target. We chalk it up to server lag because we are sitting at 30-50 pings in game. -Lifts after Breaking Balls: I am sure this is more apparent in 8man because you have a smaller pool of players to lift because the tank can't be thrown (to my knowledge). But it is absolutely annoying to watch someone break a ball and get taken to 40% and before people can top them up they get lifted and flung around the room to the death. It is some of the worst RNG in this fight. When someone gets assigned a ball or a mind trap they should be taken out of the list of 'available' players. Meaning that if the game rolls through 8 players with the tank never being thrown. 2-3 players will be running to explode balls, 1 player in a mind trap, 1 player being thrown. -SOA's bugs in general: We have only known this fight as a bugged fight. We never experienced it any other way. We design strats and ideas around the bugs so that we can down the content despite the bugs. We have killed him on Nightmare and that is great but in 6 days we are going to the 2 month mark of when I started playing. Instead of releasing new content you should polish and shine the content you have currently. Because when you release new content you seem to break other things. And when you have a game or pve boss fight that doesn't function correctly as is then releasing new content could only further the problem instead of fixing it. I'd never add a second level of a building to a first level if the foundation isn't strong enough to support it. You need to make sure you have a solid foundation to work with before adding new content. -Karaggas: It's fine. Bonethrasher can potentially random one shot folks but other then that I think the instance is fine and well tuned. Aesthetically your 'wall fix' is silly. You essentially painted over a wall texture over the missing walls and people can now walk into the walls and check out the planet and some of the Operation level or potentially fall to their death if they aren't careful. Nothing major but I thought it was silly. Also Nightmare Karagga's still did not yield a chest, but that is whatever. Over all I think its a great game and with tuning/fixing it should be an even better game. EA forced an early push on Bioware and we are still essentially sitting in 'Beta' despite the games release. My only hope and aspiration is that Bioware or the game Dev's can get on the ball with more context fixes to show us SOA no bugs. Anyways BUMP.
  11. The Rakata Gear Vender sells one light saber tha has a I-level of 126 where as all the other Rakata Gear is 140. The Columi Vender sells a lightsaber that is I-level 130ish (higher then Rakata). My understanding is the Rakata is suppose to be the top end gear. So obviously the lightsaber's bugged/stats bugged/modifications need adjusted.
  12. If you are working on a fight for 8-10 minutes then you are probably not geared for the encounter or running 3 healers 1 tank and therefore should hit a enrage. But giving 2 dps 1 tank and 1 healer 8-10 minutes to finish a single fight would ensure victory as long as you had people able to avoid mechanics and heal through tough encounters.
  13. I think they need longer enrage timers. They should definitely keep them but extending them a little bit longer wouldn't hurt anything.
  14. I love the game. My guild loves the game. But these are some changes we have seen and I have brought it up in some in-game tickets but I wanted to add more. Flashpoint: Hardmode Battle for Ilum Group make-up: 1 Operative Healer / 2 Sith Sorcerer DPS / 1 Sith Assassin Tank We killed every boss up to the final boss. The first boss we used a Battle Ress on and so I am not sure if that messes with the loot. But each boss either dropped nothing, crystals, or the loot chest was not able to be opened. Once we got to the final boss, we are doing fine. We get the first set of adds down that spawn and the he gains a buff that Enrages him by 200% damage and he starts 1 shotting people. That is after the first wave of add's, probably 30 seconds into the fight. Flashpoint: Hardmode The Foundry Group make-up: 1 Sith Sorcerer Healer / 1 Sith Sorcerer DPS / 1 Sniper DPS / 1 Jugg Tank We cleared the bosses up to HK. I believe the first boss gave loot but the second boss had a chest and the chest would not unlock. And I think one of the boss like people only gave crystals and no loot. Once we got to HK though we are fine on the fight until he goes into his stasis chamber and you have to break the panels to get him out. We break the panels immediately to release him but he always comes out with a buff that increases his damage considerably and it wont go away even after wiping. It was basically an 'enrage' from being in the stasis chamber that someone had said he isn't suppose to receive if you break him out fast enough, but yet he receives it anyways. We didn't want to waste our time on the fight any longer. Flashpoint: Hardmode Boarding Party Group make-up: 1 Sith Sorcerer Healer / 1 Sith Sorcerer DPS / 1 Sniper DPS / 1 Jugg Tank Pretty much the same as Foundry. Bosses lacking loot and gaining enrage buffs before a minute of the fight was up. The final boss is WAY over-tuned. The main bosses grenade takes my down to 10% health or kills me in 2 shots. The random threat of the shielding guy is crazy because if you survive the main boss's barrage of gun fire then he walks over and kills you in 1 shot. The medic heals too often making it extremely over complicated to survive the two and kill her and interrupt her heals. Flashpoint: Hardmode Black Talon Multiple Groups: Everything in this place works for the most part. I know if you choose the light side option instead of killing the commander then when you kill them the chest didn't activate for us and we received no loot. The Bonus mission boss from what we could tell would 'Enrage' at 25%-30% health increasing his damage by 200% which means that either one of his abilities goes off then the tank was dead making it nearly impossible short of kiting him and using LOS to our advantage. Once we got past him to the final chick we have killed her many times but we started to notice that she gained 'Enrage' as well but we couldn't find a correlation with her health pool so we are assuming its a time issue and when she lunges at someone its a 1 hit. What I would change..: 'Enrage' should be on a timer. Let's say a 7-8 minute timer on every boss. Longer if the fight requires more time because the boss gets to a point where he can't be hit (inside stasis chamber on HK). We would like to see a standard enrage timer. If it is based on Health that is just bad because you could have a great group but soon as they reach a 30% health enrage they could get unlucky, then your kills are based on luck that the boss did not destroy your tank. A longer enrage timer would probably fix a lot of the issues. Its horrible to have a good healer, heal through harder encounters only to shut down by something they CANT heal through. The damage output of some of these bosses. You have to remember that these are 4 man instances. If one of the DPS goes down the fight is pretty much over, you can battle ress that player but I have noticed if the healer leaves the tank then the tank gets destroyed. I am not saying to dumb down anything just simply lowering the damage output a little would be nice. Once again these are 4 man instances not 8 man, 5 man or anything. And the enrage timers should help greatly if improved to timers/longer timers. Loot.. if the chest's are the issues with the loot then place the loot on the character getting killed and not in a chest. Also we have noticed the high price of repairing our gear trying to kill these encounters. I am in Light Armor and a full red repair bill is around 29,000 credits where as my medium armor friend is at 27,000. Quite possibly it is the gear difference we have. But I averaged around 7,000-8,000 credits per death. My understanding there are not 10-20 daily missions giving more then 10,000 credits a pop. So there is no way besides working the GTN and going out and killing creatures to make the money to pay for repairs. If we could have a lower repair cost that would be great, or implement more ways to make money. Because 5,000 credits at 50 for a 7-15 minute pvp game is a joke. That is my rant and rave, I can go into more details. Thank you, Narc.
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