I've decided that SWtoR is a lost cause like so many other MMOs that have come before it. No I'm not "rage quitting", if anything I'm tired. Tired of promise unfulfilled. Tired of promises unfulfilled. Just bone tired. I was one of the people who started WoW way back in the day. When it was a home, a community, a place to go have some fun. This is before it became the "leet hardcore" game that so many want or need it to be. This is before it just became a grind and no more fun. This game held so much promise. So much potential. But after leveling my CM to 50 around three weeks ago I've found that there's little to no community, which means no feeling of being home, and no fun. My server is pretty much dead and my guild died long ago. Other then PvP which I don't do, I guess I could level some alts. But why? If down the road I'll run into the same thing I currently have why bother? WoW became what it was because it produced a great feeling of community. It lost that feeling long ago but it just kept going more then anything due to inertia. And so many pretenders to the throne try to take WoW on but so far all I see is the same flaw. No feeling of community. Anything else in a MMO can be overcome as long as you have that. But lose it, or never have it to start with and your just wasting your time. Like I was. I don't think I'll try another MMO. At least not for a very long time. There's just nothing there for me that I can't find in a single player RPG. So I guess it's so long and thanks for all the fish.

<Sigh> I hate to say it but I'm moving on from another MMO that showed great potential but then shot it's self in the foot. My server is pretty much dead, and my guild is worse. I got my CM to level 50 about 3 weeks ago and have yet to get one PuG run for anything. Today I was on doing my usual LFG spam and a guy who was looking for a healer and tank for a hard mode actually asked me what a CM was. ***?!? Are we that low quality that no one has heard of a combat medic? I mean what other build would use a CM short cut? I checked the PTS notes and saw that we finally being given a battle rez. SFW. It isn't going to change anything because I think the writings on the wall. Like so many other MMOs before great concept but piss poor execution. I'm starting to hear the death rattle, and I'll be surprised if it isn't "free to play" this time next year. And no I'm not rage quitting. I don't feel any rage at all. Just tired. Of the promise lost and or squandered. Of the heart ache of starting a new MMO with high hopes and ton's of energy to only again see a game that just doesn't work unless you fit a small minority. In fact I think I'll stop playing MMOs all together. I think I'm looking for a home that just isn't there anymore. The one I had in vanilla WoW before BC and all the "leet hardcore" players took it away from me. Well I'll unsub and I won't even bother checking back after 1.2 goes live. I mean why bother? It's not going to change the inevitable. This game is slowly dying so why do I want to stick around for that? So long and thanks for all the fish.

Do you play a CM in end game PvE? Well I don't, not because I'm not a lv50 CM, I am. But because I can't get in a PuG to save my life and my guild is pretty much DoA. Extra armor and HP is great if your going to get targeted but how often is a healer going to get targeted in a well run party? Even with any boss AoE damage, heads up play will go a long way to reduce healer damage. So in PvE as a main healer all that extra HP and armor don't mean squat. I'd give up a great portion of my extra HP if it meant I was a more viable MH in end game content. The other problem with your argument is your idea that being a single target healer is nothing but gravy. And it is if you tank heal and nothing else. But if you have to bounce your heals around being a single target healer gets old quick, real quick. As well the main trade off in MMOs for being a single target healer has been great efficiency. Why? because again when you have to bounce heals around you start to burn your resources real quick. With the CM regen nerfs that's going to be more problematic. Now all that applies to being a MH in a 4 man or a tank healer in a 8man+. If your an off heal that's different and being a heal/DPSer is great as you can flip between the 2 as needed. But that has it's own draw back, who want's a so-so healer and so-so DPSer all rolled into one in a Boss fight? Most players don't have the imagination to see the possibilities that brings so find it easier to keep to the old "holy triad". As well CMs don't really have any must need abilities so picking us becomes mandatory. If we were the only class with a battle rez then all the other nerfs wouldn't hurt us as much. And that is at least my if not many other CMs worry. Why take us along on the ride if we're more of a liability then a enhancement in a end game party? Bottom line there's not much reason to take a CM even pre 1.2. Add the reaction to even the current speculation about CM viability and we're all ready getting passed by. What do you think will happen post 1.2? Even if we become the best healer in the game, which come on, only an idiot would think that'll happen, we'll have to overcome all the bad speculation over CM healing. As it stands everyone that has actually tested the CM regen nerfs on the PTS has said the same thing. We lose about 30% of our over all healing. How will that fact get us a healing spot in a party? It won't and that's the problem. Once any class/build is forced to sit on the side lines they're hooped because even if they get fixed they're so far behind in the progression of end game content that it's useless trying to get them up to speed. If the regen nerfs go threw as they are CMs will become useless until the first expansion drops. Anyone want to wait till then? Not me.

This has been my main reason for QQing as some of the more laid back posters are calling our complaints. Be it 4, 8, or 16 man a parties make up is important and is a major factor in how hard/easy a boss fight is. With this in mind there is always classes that are the preferred class for any position, tank, heal, DPS, CC, support, what have you. There are also some classes that can fill a position in a pinch. And there are some that will struggle so much that no one wants them. These nerfs will do that to CM. We will never get a chance at bat. It's easy to say things like "oh relax, it won't be that bad." and "If it's a bad nerf BW will fix it." as well "you'll just need to learn how to play your class is all". One big problem. How can we do any of those things if no one lets us play? Even if it's not that bad, everyone will think it anyway. I mean come on CM are not the most sought after heal class even now, so what happens after 1.2? And if they do change their minds and fix it how long will it take? Just how far behind in the PvE end game progression will CMs fall before that happens. There is a very real chance that CMs will be on the outside looking in because no one wants them in their party. And once that happens a class becomes useless because it doesn't get the play time to get the gear to keep up with the big boys. So please explain to me how we CMs can over come that very real possibility that the 1.2 patch will introduce. We can't and anyone with any common sense knows it.

Okay so maybe in PvP CMs are OP. The debate still rages on on that one. But I don't, repeat don't PvP. I'm a PvE player. To me PvP is like UT or Quake except with more options instead of main shot and secondary shot and I just don't get into it. But PvE where as a group you take on some gigantic bad @ss monster and threw tactics and teamwork take him down are what I like. In fact at one time it was what made MMOs, well MMOs. If you love to PvP, no problem fill your boots. But nerfs meant to balance PvP CMs look to really penalize PvE CMs. Which means me, and why do I have to suffer? Again no offence to PvP lovers but it's ****ed up too many MMOs on me and I'm really starting to hate it. Not that it exists, just that what used to be the core of a MMO now takes a back seat to it. Or so it seems.

Yes and yes!! That's my biggest problem too. The only heal that isn't effected by ammo regen is BI now that TP costs ammo. How can we keep ourselves in a reasonable regen zone? If we get hit with a need for some massive healing we're toast and so are our teammates. So with that in mind what healer would you want in an intense fire fight? I think 1.2 is going to make CM's into pariahs, and that's just not right.

Exactly. +1

They'll last as long as the developers decide to let them. Problem is that could be one h@ll of a long time. One question, do you play a healer or are you just trolling on all the healer boards? The problem we CM's have with the nerfs is that almost everything is nerfed. We gain one extra person on KB and all our costs go up while our heals and shields go down. That's a pretty drastic move on a class that hasn't shown it's self to be OP. Maybe if it was done in stages it'd be a bit easier to take. But all this at once? I don't know. Secondly many of us CMs have noticed we're considered second class PvE healers, so we only get a place on the bus if there's no sages around. Think 1.2 is going to make this any better? I don't.

Your totally right. The proof will be in the pudding. But as a CM and a player that often goes heals (yeah I'm a bit of a "care bear") I know when something doesn't look okay. The CM nerfs are not minor, they're substantial, and have a very real possibility of making the build a non starter. Think of it this way. You work really hard for a year at work learning to do your position's tasks well. As with most jobs raises and promotions go to the highest performers. That's fine because you know your position inside out. But then management decides that you need more of a challenge so they make you tie one arm behind your back. Now you aren't nearly as effective at your job. Departments don't really want you because you'll make them look bad, and you really don't like your job any more. So what do you do? Try for a different position in the company, knowing you have to start back at the bottom? Or quit and look for a new position in another company, where they won't be so dismissive with all the effort you make learning to do your job well? People have invested time and now it might be a total waste of that investment. All we're wondering is why, and no one has tried to explain what the thinking is behind such a massive nerf. That's not a good sign IMHO.

Just to add my two cents. I play a CM, so don't ask me if the DPS nerfs are needed or not. No idea. But there's one problem, we are talking about two different build purposes here. DPS and heals and I think that is really mudding up the waters. If you read the PTS patch notes CM is gaining 1 extra person added to our only AoE heal, which will make it better, just not all that much better. After that pretty much everything else is getting nerfed hard. Yes waiting till everything goes live will be the deciding factor. It always is. But single target healers are often the most efficient for a reason, they need to be. Yes if we tank heal and nothing else we should be fine. But that depends a lot on how good/geared the tank is and what little dirty tricks the developers decide to pull. But if we have to start bounce healing all our efficient is really needed our we'll lose someone. So if we become less efficient and start losing teammates I wonder how long it'll be before CMs become ostracized. Lets' say Mid may for scrub players, no later then July for skilled. As for anyone leveling a CM, don't even bother it'll be a painful process IMHO.

I'm laughing so hard my cheeks hurt. No not those cheeks you sicko.

Not really. It's one saving grace is it's instant and costs no ammo. Well that's till 1.2 where it will cost ammo, then it'll be totally useless. Too much cost for too little results. BTW. I thought Commandos were more like pallies then shamies. I mean I wish we were modeled after a WoW shaman. Those things were bad @ss, which most people found out when world PvP started. Then I had it confirmed when us Alliance players got a chance to play the class.

Okay, good idea. One problem much easier to say then do. Now why would I say that you might ask? Well I had the good fortune to have my main in vanilla WoW be a pally. No not just a pally but a ret pally. Yeah I know my own fault for picking not just a gimped hybrid, but the most gimped build in the most gimped hybrid. Yeah I sure know how to pick em. Let me tell you about all my assorted GFs sometime. Not pretty, not pretty at all. But the fact that pallies in general and ret pallies in particular were a hard build to play wasn't what was such a big PITA. It was all the LFGs with the following "no pallies plz" or even more often "no ret pallies plz". You know what was really funny. I'll admit I wasn't the best player and I did have some "off" nights, but over all I was pretty good. I understood what my hybrid was for. As I liked to say I was a "squishies best friend". I'm most likely one of the few pallies that wasn't afraid to use my "suicide" ability to save a group's healer. I'd also start throwing heals when needed, I was a crack filler. That was my job. Okay make whatever tasteless jokes you want. As I started doing the BR instances I never was the cause of a wipe. But once those !@#@!@ ranking programs started showing up I was also middle of the pack. Now I was middle of the pack for both DPS and healing. I'd even rank above rogues and priests on occasion. So I felt pretty good over all. But to many, and this only got worse with each expansion, if I was a DPS build why the h@ll was I so gimped at DPS? It was really hard getting into a PUG to prove I was worth the effort. So many party and raid leaders had no idea how to use a ret pally in the most effective way, so many of my suggested tactics got over ruled. And on the odd occasion they didn't..... they most times worked. Imagine that. So eventually WoW made ret pallies into half way decent DPSers. But it took a long long time and by time it had happened I wasn't really a hybrid any more just a DPSer with a different mechanic. And that's the underlying problem. It's fine to say let's prove we deserve a place on the field of battle. But how do we do it if we never get a chance to leave the bench?

Man this looks like it could really blow. Due to RL I'm just now hitting lv48 on my CM main. Does this mean when I hit 50 I'll be pretty much useless for end game content? In regard to PvP, I agree with everything being equal (skill, gear, abilities) that any 1v1 should be a draw. So if all the data says it's not there might be need to change something. But is that really what the data shows or is it just some players with a hidden agenda to have some classes hit real hard with the nerf bat? As for myself I don't PvP, so don't ask me too. So if these nerfs are meant to balance PvP how is that serving me by reducing the value of a CM in endgame content? WoW has been struggling with this for years and only finally came close to fixing it by letting players dual spec. Rift side stepped the whole question by giving a player a large number of builds. So far everything has shown it's almost impossible to balance both PvE and PvP within one build. The two game modes are too dissimilar for it to ever work without removing virtually everything that distinguishes both classes and play styles. If it's meant to force me to play another class it's the stupidest concept I've ever heard of. I mean some one explain to me why there has to be an equal mix of all the various classes and builds? Even having the same level of factions on a server isn't really needed IMHO. People will play what they enjoy to play, because after all that's why we play, to enjoy ourselves. So it makes SSOOOOO much sense to reduce my enjoyment when there are so many other sources where I can seek it. Maybe I'll get a chance to finally get into Skyrim. Of course that means I unsub since all my time is taken up with another game. Lastly if this is more of a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" way to balance things, again it's stupid. Sure after a major nerf like this they can continue tweaking it till the devs finally get the balance right. But how long will that take? How long is a player expected to suffer till some bone head dev finally sees they were off the mark, way off the mark, and then start trying to repair the damage? More importantly how many players will be willing to deal with the PITA of playing a gimped class till then? Of course none of this is written in stone till the patch goes live. But often when really big changes are coming developers will stay totally silent on the subject because they don't want to lose focus on the end goal. So I'm not surprised that there hasn't been any clarification on why they're making these changes, and if it's still in the concept phase or is a done deal. I was. I repeat was a WoW player from day one. But just got tired of the same old song and dance. I've also started playing a lot of other MMOs only to quit in disappointment because of poor quality control and execution. I was starting to feel that SWtoR might be my new WoW. Now? Well it looks like it might become my new "old" WoW. Same sh@t different game.

I too, even though my Trooper is a light side one, killed him in the end. It stands out in stark contrast to my reaction with Fuse who I didn't sacrifice on Tatooine. In fact as I was telling a co-worker just how much I was enjoying the game and it's not always black and white moral choices that I had a bit of an epiphany. Even though I had never been sure of my ability to take another human's life, I saw that given the right situation I could. What forced me down this road was the totally condescending and unrepentant manner in which the NPC was acting. "Sure I killed all those people, but I'm just much too valuable to the Republic". As the encounter progressed, and way before the choice presented it's self, I knew if I had the choice that SOB was going down. I guess because I felt he was totally amoral and was no better then a rabid dog so he deserved to die. It's the only Dark side points I have and every time I notice my points level I'm reminded of my choice and I have no qualms about it. I might even have, so to speak, a bit of pride over the act. But with Fuse the fact that he was repentant and even willing to give up his life to prevent the possible death of innocents in the future that made it impossible to let him die. I kind of think it might of been the effect the writers were going with and why you couldn't do anything other then kill or let go in the quest in question. It's a major step up IMHO from the moral choice system in a lot of games. Fable I'm looking at you. The only thing I wish was that on occasion there were more choices then three responses. I have a smuggler alt who I see as a jaded rogue type but who deep down want's to believe that people are for the most part good. It's just that his life so far has proved otherwise. So he's often cavalier and a smart @ss while still paying attention to the bottom line but sometimes there's really no option for that. Still I think the moral system in this game is really good. Even better that it's in an MMORPG.