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thecordler

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  1. According to the Book of the Sith, which just came out, Sidous's understood that all spells and rituals were crutches, he personally states that he could do sorcery and powers provided by trinkets under his own force power. He and his master understood that Force techniques were the real usage of the force, any spell, ritual, or artifact could be done with technique and therefore inferior to him. This alone is what made sidous and his own master so powerful, they would dissect the inner workings of the secrets of the force, and recreate them as sheer gestures of power. The force works on the following Combine this and the fact that Sidous had a plethora of sith holocrons that were collected by Rule of 2 sith, spanning from beings like vitiate, exar kun, revan, and Bane. He took their knowledge as his own and mastered them to the point of requiring nothing more than gesture and focus. People need to realize that yes vitiate was probably the most powerful sith only bested by Tenebrous, Plagueis, and Sidous. They were the only known sith lords in possession of his holocron and thus all his secrets and powers. Sidous is, the culmination of the entire SITH history, his predecessors of the RO2 collected practically all the sith holocrons, they were powerful because they were in essence all that came before them, with each generation becoming more powerful than the last. By the time Sidous came into power he specifically set about in the 18 years before EP4 collecting even more lore of the force from esoteric cults and traditions, all unchallenged. By the time he died his power and knowledge was without equal and at the point where his own dark soul was no longer capable of being contained by his body. His death made him even more powerful, as he essesntially became one with the darkside, which By the time of his re-birth he needed a body on the level of the skywalkers, midichlorian rich and able to actually contain his energies as even his own body in the prime of its life was no longer able. Sidous is great because VITIATE is Great, that's why he is number one. For every positive factor you credit any sith before his time, he earns it as well.
  2. I would like to piggy back on your answers with my own that go hand and hand. 1. Why didn't the jedi send someone with Obi-wan and Qui-Gon after the latter exposed a sith trained fighter.... qui-gon was not a battlemaster nor was Obi a KNight, what was mace windu doing but sitting on his butt, had he gone with them he could have handled Darth Maul, and personally witnessed the chosen one's courage when blowing up the trade ship 2. If anything, you't think the rich world of naboo would flip the bill in freeing Anakin's mother, i mean this young boy not only won the boonta eve for you, but he also saved all your people from droid death. I think the royal queen would be able to spare a few riches to buy off watto..? And if anything imagine how well she'd be treated on naboo after her son saved their people!
  3. plagueis never learned to create life, he learned to only manipulate existing life. All his knowledge was passed onto Sidious, who knew that had he mastered Spontaneous generation that the force would counteract him and thus he'd be in trouble. Sidous sought to circumvent the force by force essence transfer, and even then the force would eventually strike back at him and allow a jedi to anchor his soul to another dying soul to drag him to the netherealm of the force. so to answer your question, NO palpatine didn't learn to create life, only alter existing ones. The FORCE, the ultimate screw you button. Everything you do is great, until the force decides that you imbalance it, and empowers some event to be your undoing. Both Plagueis and his master Tenebrous had a goal of becoming constant, something the force couldn't counterbalance because they'd be as powerful as the force. If one could master the art of Force ghosting, and Midichlorian creation, they would essentially become equal to the FORCE itself, an entity that retains its identity while being one with the universe and have the power to physically manifest itself at any time. Too bad the force is smart enough to thwart them and those like them.
  4. yes Darkside is burst DPS, we should label it as so to quote ESB: Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger? Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive. never does he state honestly why if the darkside is more pound for pound better than the lightside, he notes that it is quicker, easier, and more seductive than the lightside. Jedi require large focus and time to reach power but once they do gain it they have it in spades.The sith do not; sith reach power in seconds but what good is that power after those seconds are gone and the moments of passion fade, however those like palpatine and plagueis know this and do not let the darkside crutch them, both were stated in their novels and backgrounds to understand the weakness of passion and the darkside and both take a very jedi like stance on using the force, albeit through the darkside, learning to create lasting longer passions that keep them empowered.
  5. again the EU makes excuses for letting only certain individuals pass on into force ghosts, George lucas states on commentary for the OT that by redemption and letting go of passions was how to become a force ghost, palpatine in his eyes shouldn't be able to. people keep wanting to use GL as the end of all subjects but yet always seem to forget certain parts of his statements, he doesn't consider anything after ROTJ as canon to his movies and thus Force ghosting is exclusive to lightsiders in his eyes. Luke naturally learned Form V, his raw power with the force and his own saber instruction from obi-wan and yoda. By the time he faced vader again nearly a year later he had refined channeling his force power into his dueling much like his father and mirrored his abilities. as for the darkside providing power, YES it does do so, but only for fleeting moments, when the moment is over with they are left exposed. This is why the darkside loses agains't lightsiders, the moments where their passion empowers them is not lasting, it fades and so with it their resolve, focus, and power. The lightside is reserved, and thus in the long run he won't be run down or be at a loss for power. Countless duels with moments of darkside power however can turn the tide of any battle, for OBI WAN in TPM he was able to overpower darth maul and go pound for pound after his mentor is slain, however as the fight continued he got less and less out of his anger and was beaten, luckily he refocused the light and turned the tides on Maul. Luke accomplished the same with vader, in a moment of anger he surged his power and since he uses form V he was for those moments of rage equal to vader in power. Mace windu whose style focuses on darkside forces, had to draw himself to the brink of falling into darkness when battling Sidious, and in doing so he was able to overcome him, however as the moment fades and he relents the darkside he found himself exhausted an unable to withstand his force lighting and his guard began to wane. Luke was not as knowing in the force as vader and palpatine, but at that moment in ROTJ his ability to channel the force was no less then the sum of his parts, which is every bit as powerful as a fully healed Anakin skywalker. basically he was able to put an unbelievable amount of power into his saber form, and that power output was enough to best even Darth Vader who couldn't reach that level of output due to his condition Also Luke had employed instinctively a form of Dun Moch which weakened Vader's resolve lowering his anger and thus lowering his force power from hatred, the end result is his blows and blocks are weaker, a flaw that persists in D'jem So. however back on topic, Vader is powerful because of 2 things, ONE he has a midichlorian count WELL over 20,000 which not even yoda has over 20,000. It's safe to assume that off the charts means that vader can have anywhere from 20,001-infinite, but i'll be kind and give him 20K-30K per cell. At 60% body, which is his condition he'd have 12,000~18,000 per cell which is still 5~7 times the needed requirement to be force sensitive. He still has without training or knowledge the force power to be multiple times greater in output than the average force sensitive. think of Midichlorians like a car engine, bigger better engines = speed and power, but no matter the engine they will get the vehicle to the destination. Destination = force technique Thus vader is still effective even at his weakened state was more powerful than almost every other force user out and about in the galaxy with only those like yoda and palpatine stronger in teh force. Even so, couple his amazing output power with the fact he constantly hates and summons the darkside andyou have a being that literally uses all the power he can muster at any time. Very few force users can compete with this, and thats saying something.
  6. really because he was allowed to live on immortally afterwards thanks to the lightside of the force. Something that despite the EU treats like it was candy being that anyone could go out and buy, it was suppose to be rare and un-attainable, George Lucas has been very vocal that in his canon only lightsiders can be force ghosts because darksiders can't let go of their passions and pass into the ghost state. LUKE was every bit of vader's dueling equal because he fought using vader's style, the same mechanic of blows so powerful they could break a limb also were present in his blows which allowed him to battle his father on equal footing. In the End LUKE opened himself to the force and raged much like his father and thus was fighting his father on equal footing, the only difference Vader has less ability to draw upon the force as luke does through his body.
  7. the force is the real culprit, force sensitive or not it still flows into all life forms and as the great Plageius said, midichlorians speak with the force with or without being told to do so by the person, in turn the force reacts to them and grants a species it's lifespan, its innate defenses against the force, or even if genetic material is clone able. The force is the ultimate layer of answering any question within the star wars universe, it's both cruel and forgiving, and seeks to constantly find a center within itself wand will do everything in it's power to balance itself out, from sith miraculous conception of thought bombs to wipe themselves out, to the chosen one being born to kill Plagueis and Sidious who pushed once to hard on the force with their darkness. people wonder why Vader lost to Obi wan, it's simple really, the force was balancing the scales at the time. The moment Sidious won his duel, anakin was doomed to lose his. As far as G-cannon was concerned the force balanced itself, powerful Sith master Palpatine = Powerful Jedi master Yoda, Powerful righthand Vader = powerful right hand Obi Wan. Obi wans death served to ensure balance was even kept at that moment, Luke taking his place and becoming a jedi knight. In the end when Yoda died, it was only natural that Palpatine was going to follow soon, the force would like dominos fall into place and ensure that palpatine would die. All this goes back into your question about aging and the inconsistencies seen throughout EU media, if the force has need of you, things will go your way. Medical treatments work better than they should, something new is brought to make you better, blah blah blah.
  8. as opposed to what, TORs over the top sith and jedi...? How is it people refuse to use the same scrutiny on their own arguements. How is Vitate, malgus or satele not OP in a DBZ like state. Vitiate is basically a Palpy clone with relics and rituals, consumes a planet and force lighting and powers from TFU. But he's not DBZ in any way? Malgus cuts through things like a samurai from an anime, as iff magically his lightsaber blade has an infinte length when swung. Satele and her mountain crumbing force push.... if you allow your arguement side to be OPed to stupid DBZ proportions then you must allow the media which gives the other side their merits. Thus, all your sources vs all their sources. IN THE END, SIDIOUS could do more than vitiate, and did so without the crutch of objects and rituals.
  9. the difference is that DBZ is about introducing new characters that continually up the bar, which then makes the existing ones being made to do the same thing. Palpatine/luke are not newly introduced and the books with their powers are well before KOTOR's concept stage as an IP. Vitaite is someone new, and therefore SW doesn't follow DBZ policy, if it did vitiate would be introduced as being stronger than any character in the franchise forcing the older characters to get newly added media to make them stronger. Palpatine and luke were force gods during the 90s, Its the 2010s and not a single new character IP comes close outside of Galen marek, abeloth, and Cade Skywalker to surpassing either of those two in terms of power.
  10. what about his statement is false, the jedi religion is over 20,000 years old, if that's not ancient i don't know what is. As far as most people were concerned, the force is esoteric and not widely seen outside of conflicts with the jedi order, by the clone wars the jedi hadn't even seen or fought a sith in nearly 300 years, or fought any major wars. The jedi order itself was barely able to support the clone wars and were spread thin. Most people never even see the jedi in action within their lifetime, and imagine that one captain complaining to vader, he never served in the clone army, he's what 36 at most, which makes him 16 when the jedi were busting their powers all over the galaxy, which means he more than likely never saw one before that, unless of course he was on the wrong side of the law. Some people read too deep into what is said. Faith in that ancient jedi religion..... well was he supposed to say, Faith in that 20,000 year old, wiped out religion of 20 years... thats a mouthful.
  11. what i want to know is why people insist that revan has some sort of dietific place in the history of star wars, i mean let us be clear, from KOTOR1 what power did he display that was sooooo overpowering....? Just cause kreia and other call him a maelstrom of force power doesn't make him cool? So he had force lightning... ooooh many jedi have it, ploo-koon, kyle katarn, heck quinlin vos... it's not like his version was able to tear apart walls, break through shields or KILL out right, i mean i played that game and even a max level revan couldn'y click force lightning once and kill a end game enemy in one shot. Where do people get this crap that he's soo overpowered, oh wait i know... COMICS and BOOKS where they can EXPAND on the actualy depth of his power outside the original format he was presented. not once in KOTOR did i see revan use a force power to affect anything outside a person to person combat, he didn't force a blast door open, didn't crush a vehicle, and sure as heck didn't cause force storms that engulf anything larger than 100 feet. Oh but he fought Malak who was powered by the starforge... no he ran around and dodged malak until he could sever his link with the starforge, rendering him powerless. It was not like Malak was a real powerhouse. the dude was nothing compared to Darth Scion or Nihlus. Back on the topic at hand, Quit trying to overly embellish your favorite SW character, picking and choosing which media format is allowed to compare your character to against others, because whats the point of comparing it at all. All comparison battles should be fought at their proven continuity, impossible feats don't count unless they are done more than once under similar conditions, and you should be gauging characters powers based on multiple accounts so that he receives no unfair advantage due to one media format over embellishing them. In other words are the powers displayed congruent with the over time outlook, did Luke in book A year 14 do the same things in luke book g year 15 of his life, or was book g he was nowhere near the level of power described in BOOK A, and then when Book K year 17 comes out is he still in the same line of powers as Book A or Book G. Superman can do a billion things but he has a constant displayed limit presented in his everday life, where he does indeed fail at fighting people like doomsday and darkseid. This is the real superman, not the We have a single outrageous storyline in which its only about superman and not those in his universe and so we'll make him crush an entire solar system because we can. 1 time power-ups don't make it cannon to superman, it's why the comic industry have a term for it, ONE-OFFs.
  12. 1.First of all Chancellor Valorum was tied down, this was impled both by Palpatine and the opening crawl which stated he sent 2 jedi secretly to naboo as he couldn't get anything done in the senate, OPENING CRAWL STATES THIS. this implies that he has no control or is at the absolute point of being overturned by republic congress and that obviously the republic is no longer stable. Amidala saw this first hand, thanks to palpatine's manipulation and that being a Sovreign state, she can call upon a vote of no confidance in place of her senator, which leaves Palpatine as a clean candidate as he could argue he didn't think that valorum as corrupt blah blah blah, his queen called it. 2. the whole midichlorian not onced explained how the force itself works or why it exists only that midichlorians are the medium in all living things to have a symbiotic relation with the force itself. BINDS LIFE TO THE FORCE. Qui-gon even states that the FORCE created midichlorians so that life may commune with it, keeping the mystical force intact as it predates life and midichlorians and created both. 3. Again if you read the opening crawl, Naboo was being legally blockaded by the trade federation, obviously for violating trade laws. Notice at this point the trade federation calls in for many ships, and black out the comms of naboo, in a single day they conquer the place, and after the queen escapes they remove all but 1 ship so to appear that they aren't occupying naboo and that the queen bears no proof. The 2 jedi who were no authorized by the republic to investigate can't speak on her behalf as it would give fuel to fire that Valorum is corrupt and uses the jede like secret police. QUEUE palpatines line that it is believed that valorum is corrupt, but the accusations are baseless, however they do tie his hands down, so if it is revealed he sent 2 jedi illegally then those baseless accusations are now real. 4. Well honestly the trade ships weren't designed to facilitate a defensive structure, it is purely an offensive platform, so if a ship entered into its bay and shot out micro fusion warheads into a power generator specifically in the area designed to house and fuel warships, notice when anakin flies in you see dozens of the troop carriers that obiwan and quigon both leave on earlier, they are not small vessels. SO the destruction of these massive generators which are internal mind you would cause massive damage, its not rocket science, if you could get a f-16 missle inside the aircraft carrier itself where countless munitions are held do you think it would cause it to sink. 5. the movie has the same ensemble casting and pacing as episode 4, with an introduction into characters the first 20 mins, then focusing on a group of characters during the middle. Tell me when anyone became the main character specificallly in star wars eps 4, because Han steals lukes only solo limelight.
  13. so by your logic, the movie characters should be allowed any medium which describes and illustrate their greatness...? Cause the sith emperor and revan only had a game or comic to describe them. I'll be simple and sweet for you, i'll use a video game called the FORCE UNLEASHED which basically makes all episode 1-6 characters into gods. since it's a medium which presents palpatine, vader, shaak ti, boba, ect.. as beings sooooo powerful in the force they can at will use it to disintergrate matter, shoot lighting described as powerful as a star igniting, and oh yeah bring down star destroyers. Or hey let me use EU books seeing as we allow novels and comic media where palpatine is out right stated to perform everything Vitiate can achieve without his rituals or relics, he can achieve it all by shear willpower, or where luke can literally create or resit black holes. These characters aren't powerful because they are in a movie, they are powerful because all forms of media that have those charactetrs describes them as godly figures. people need to quit using their rose tinted heart shaped glasses to favor their own favorite star wars media and accept the list of facts presented by all the media which can bring them into a common value. ONE TIME ONLY events are exceptions to most rules, as they are not accurate to the continual descriptions that characters are based, for example i present Mace Windu in Gendy Tartakofsky's clone wars, where he single handedly destroyed an entire droid army with his fists, effortlessly parried hundreds of blaster bolts, force defectled a seismic shockwave, force leaped several miles, force pushed the weight of over 100+ battle droids at one time, my personal favorite which is using the force as a concussive blast capable of obliterating 2 foot diameter holes in droids like tissue paper when lightsabers, blasters, and grenades barely do the same, and destroyed an entire super weapon. yet was unable to express any of this power in any movies, let alone against palpatine.
  14. i assume the constant wars, rebuilding efforts after said war, the need to maintain an entire galaxy from spinning out of control, galactic laws to prevent technological growth in order to keep all planets on the same level and none being able to capitalize on advanced tech that the galaxy itself is stagnant. The constant lack of resources to maintain fleets of ships, or the poor economy of galactic sectors in part to more powerful sectors trying to keep themselves in power. However when the need arises and these bans are lifted the starwars universe seems to be able to create and innovate at an alarming pace. For example world devastators, matter converters, and even learning to Reverse engineer and master Vong Bugs.
  15. honestly this debate is tiresome, as Star wars is without limits and star trek is all about limitation. The federation's main goal is the safe regulation of technology, and stunts itself and all others due to this. The klingons have rarely made anything, they base all their tech from Reverse engineered tech they take from defeated foes, and haven't actually innovated any of their technologies. However Star trek has moments that violate their own specs, such as phasers capable of destroying planetoids in one episode and unable to in another. A tractorbeam that can literally rip planets apart from the core, yet never used on starships as offensive weapons. Torpedoes that can have safeties removed to blow up entire planets because of some federation sanction against some omega particle. Honestly star trek suffers from a crutch it places on itself, do you go with official data printed or what is seen on screen and in novels that totally don't jive with the numbers they limit themselves to. In star trek the federation has a warehouse of weapons and projects that could literally alter and destroy the known galaxy. Case in point, they have shields that can enter into the dense parts of a sun, or actually probes that survive super novas. Are we going to use these or the limits of databooks, hence i find the whole debate laughable because the Klingons unlike the federation will resort to safeties being off if faced witha n enemy that presents to their view extinction for them. i can list tech on both sides that are game changers but lets be honest, the fact is star trek loses due to it's complete discrepancy on it's own lore. the Data and hard numbers never match what is seen on screen or within a novella. where Star wars has been smart and never tried to give a numerical science value on anything they have in order to just say they can do it. i'm a big fan of both, and honestly can tell you it's comparing apple to oranges.
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