To person who never played tank before the tanking is OP. To incredibly bad or lazy players the tank is OP. Nothing more to say.

I cannot force myself to stay calm. Seriously - are you all THAT bad in pvp that u cannot fathom even the very basics of pvp? Maybe its because I have played pvp mmorpgs before but that doesnt justify your a bit childish posts. Attack healer? - sure. when your team is sure you can burst him down Attack tank? - sure. when your team is sure you can burst him down Attack dps? - sure. when your team is sure you can burst him down yea. its all same. the main problem is - "when your team is sure you can burst him down" /or her what about CC, assist, switch assist, some sneaky pre-dots, or sneaky pre-dot - CC, change assist etc. its not hard to do. for gods sake its just a game. even 8 years old lads can learn the basics. why not you? CC isnt here just to help you kill your target. its grp based game. CC can cripple whole enemy team and help your team to get the upper hand - put a solid pressure, force healer to focus heal/tank to switch guard... and thus make opportunity to CC and switch assist etc. etc. I think the problem is you havent played warhammer online where healers and tanks were waste of time to even look at and your main goal was to just learn when and how to CC them and quickly swap your assist train to dps. not to mention in warhammer u had 30-40 sec immunity to CC while u were affected by it. btw ... is there old buddy Telen there? Grum reporting for duty

Pretty much it was said before. The aim is to balance the game. Though its very hard to do in grp orientated mmorpg. Some classes might be beasts, some classes complete joke depends on situation and your grp and enemy grp. SWTOR isnt able to be balanced at all (I mean for both pvp and pve) because the main focus is on PvE and storyline, and PvP is just secondary - something like that crap where u r flying with your ship. So it means there has to be solid and careful nerf/buffs because class need some CC, dmg, survivability in order to do storyline solo while also not be unkillable jack-of-all-trades monsters in grp PvP and PvE. Also changes to one class affect other classes. So again there has to be some careful tweaking to avoid FOTM in PvE and PvP (for example - the best heal operative, best tank PT, best dps sorc means these 3 classes would be more welcome to join grp than classes that are currently underdog). etc.

same in warhammer - unless u r 100% sure u are able to burst the healer down fast there is no reason to even touch him. anyone tried to kill equally geared turtle warrior priest with aoe detaunt (-50% dmg taken) in WAR? That would show you how that "focus healer" strategy is bad. its same here - CC healer (stagger, stun, interupt...), CC tank (hard CC or get him away from dps) and burst the unprotected dps.

if resolve bar fill after lets say 2 stuns that change would be horrible. now I do not see problem at all. especially when all classes have more than 1 CC. but do not fear. just found out war is still alive so Im going to stop infesting your forums with nonsense and trash talk. I wish ya good luck in game and in the real life, lads and lasses and happy hunting out there

lol. completely forgot about that cannon-fodder strategy "ok lads, hide behind that corner. let pug warband charge, wait few sec and hit the enemy backlines." well in that case that bad pug players is actually the best tank in wz

Im pretty much surprised by some players in lowish brackets. lvl 11 trooper who typed before start he is new to game and apologize if he would screw it up. some1 from our team yelled - "lol. he do not even have advanced class. omg" and others lol at him. I pm him to follow me to take and guard objective. He was happy to do that . we took it, then I told him Im running to middle to heal. that once he see any incoming or when he is stunned or staggered let he just do not try to fight and yell at chat he need backup. that way I was able to get to objective to intercept cap and 2 times even save him. when I saw these pros who lol'd at him fail to intercept cap 6v3, I told him to run to middle and enjoy some pew pew, that I would guard now. When I yelled "incoming" only person who run to aid me was him. We lost. But its not all that bad. Its far easier to lol and shout at people but once u start to be polite and try to help them u might be surprised. Sure when u have 8 pugs there is high chance 3 of them know what to do, 2 just dont give a **** but these 2 other pugs might actually listen to you and try to do their best. All that sheep play is because players dont give a **** OR they do not know what to do OR they just feel bad so they just try to blend in the crowd.

Objective based pvp isnt bad idea. Though it might be implemented better. When u do not face organised opposition u might stand on objective for whole wz with no1 trying to cap it. Also it take away the pvp action. who the hell want to guard a node when u see there is some solid action in the middle? its usually just for stealth classes to do some 1v1 mostly. Oh hell, **** that. check warhammer - there are some interesting scenarios mourkain temple - in the middle of the map spawn some artifact u can take. once u have it, your team is gaining points but after some time that artifact start to dmg u. I guess last ticks are around 2k or 2,5k dmg (tanks have around 10k HP). once u r dead every1 can retake it from your corpse for X secs or the artifact reapear in the middle. Stonetroll crossing - in the middle of the map appear some thing that u have to pick up and then interact with 3 flags over the map to gain points. Gates of ekrund - small map with 3 objectives - middle and ramp above middle. when u stand near flag for X sec u make the flag neutral and then another X sec to cap it for your team. more players around - faster the cap. also u r gaining points for each flag. Nordenwatch - 3 objectives - 2 near spawn point, 1 in middle. The middle is pretty much nice situated for tactical defense. Stairs u can use to get on higher ground, bridge to stop enemies by "tank wall", cliff to punt enemy away or to make some pew pew station. All objectives generate points over time. U first retake it by sheer numbers standing around it to make it neutral and then stand there to cap it. That way u have to fight to wipe enemies or rout them back from the area around flag to cap it. Another objectives are near spawn so its hard for some1 who try to cap it solo cuz usually he is attacked by some guy who was killed. And still these matches do not last long. Mainly cuz u do not need X objectives to start generating points and also kills are awarded by points. Maybe something like that might be done in swtor too. OR for gods sake give us any new wzs pls

hell. yea I apologize for that "logic" now Im glad I passed exams several years ago my whole premise is indeed piece of crap and I really have no idea I have come to that I just wanted to point to - u cant really make premise based on your feelings or how u think it will be right. and about that football thing and nasty ManU ******es and newbies. I still wont change a **** on my statement. U can just point out - "its not the fault of ManU players, but fault of that newbie, cuz he could learn from his mistakes etc." sure. but I still think 1 playground isnt the best choice for any mmo. even for mmo with such limited pvp like swtor have. looks like u all think that every player who queue for pvp has same skill, same options to form premade, same desire to win (I do not mean some1 queue for wz to lose the game, just that some players are overmotivated and usually u can recognize them - shouting and blaming others when things go wrong). what u fail to see is that some players join pvp from time to time. do they deserve to be mauled? sure. they usually do not know about tactics and even basics of pvp. but they also deserver some kind of training. this "training grounds" should be pug brackets. he will still get his *** kicked properly but there is also higher chance he might actually learn the game. when u join as pure pug with average or below average skills and u face solid premade there is pretty much nothing u can learn from that. I sry again for warhammer: 2 years or so there were 4 scenario brackets (warzones). rank 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40. in first bracket u faced uncoordinated mass of players who didnt even knew how the hell they should move or target anyone mostly. that was ok cuz they had time to actually learn the basics (how to target, what skill to use, how to heal others, who objectives mean, how to take, how to communicate with others). not to mention in lower brackets u had almost no dmg mitigation unless u were playing a tank so healers and rdps learned to position themselves and avoid contact with mdps. mdps learned that rdps can unleash some solid pew pew when they are free to cast etc. u leveled your char and advanced through sc brackets. every brackets offered more challenge and something more to learn (how to prekite, how to guard allies, how to counter some classes, few first tactics how to dispatch enemy force by knockback tank, kd dps, stagger healers and burst like mad ...). in that time people actually tried to level fast to r40 so u faced a lot less solid premades. in the last bracket u faced hardened veterans but u already learned a few things about cooperation, your class, other classes and objectives. u were killed easily by organized force or by some1 who had superior gear but u could actually make something useful. (tanks spec full turtle to unleash CC and debuff and hold the frontline, dps learned how to provide some assist dmg, healers learned how to stay in backlines). something like that I really miss in swtor. these few brackets that were just training grounds for pvp.

Why the hell u argue about logic for gods sake? It can just bring you to insanity if u would think about it. Lets say I have premise and I tell u its all true : (A ∧ B) <=> C A = run in premade B = face a premade C = challenging fight / balanced fight Im not great in english so sry if I screw it up - "I will have a challenging fight only if I run in premade and face a premade" that can be also transformed to ( A ' ∧ B ' ) <=> C "Only running in pug vs. pug offer challenging fight" Sure thats laughable argument and premise as hell. especially when u try to implement it. sometimes premade face a premade and is humilated by stronger premade. sometimes pugs are wiped by more experienced pugs. sometimes even bad premade loose to a bit solid casual pugs. though sometimes it happens to have stronger premade vs. unexperienced pugs too. Oh and I really like that football talk btw Imagine - u r learning how to play football. U try to dribble for the first time and BAM! there are some nasty players from ManU. They take you the ball and run around you in circles and mocking you. "bastards! I just want to train and learn how to play cuz I like the idea of playing football" you reply. "lol. so do not enter the pitch!" they mock you. "but thats the only pitch around!" "lol. who cares. go play chess" The next day u go to the pitch again. There are some other kids around so u start playing the football for the first time. U dribble, u learn how to make a pass and them BAM! again these nasty players from ManU. They intercept your pass and keep mocking you. U try to retake the ball alongside with other kids but they just keep passing it above your heads. After few years u return to the pitch to play a football. U get to team and others keep yelling at you: "U r bad! what the hell are u trying to do? lol u do not even know to dribble or to shoot!" "these bastards from ManU are to blame. When I tried to learn to play football they always took me the ball" "lol. **** ya bad." and that makes me very sad panda

have u ever tried to just annoy that healer as much as possible instead trying to kill him? when u would be pain in the *** u pretty much force tanks and other dps to run to get rid of u thus making ideal opportunity to push. or just force healer to use CC on u = wasted gcd and resources or just force him to kite to hell. yes. healing is bloody OP when healers have enough time to heal, drink coffee, tell u few jokes on ts. once u put some pressure (not try to outdps him but just interupt, knockback, CC...) they would have bloody harder task to keep their team alive. and there just comes grp play. bad team wouldnt help the healer and it might lead to wipe. good team will usually get rid of that bastard by some pull, CC ... also pls do not try to shout for heal nerf where 3 healers in wz are OP or u might end up with some nice patch that would force all to get 3+ healers to have a slight chance to keep some1 alive in wz. (ya know, not everytime u have 3+ healers in wz)

@Ajuntalee about your 'I am anal about not being matched with premades and I am willing to wait longer to get in a PUG only match" checkbox its pretty one sided statement. what about "Our premade is too scared to be matched with premades so we are willing to wait to get in wz with pugs" ? I think u might be pretty surprised who would be affected the most by that checkbox. Im pretty sure it would be premades. cuz usually its 4 man premade and 12 pugs. I agree with you. Some players are bad. They do not want to improve, they just dont give a **** and just want to be able to win even when they do not try hard enough. Sure u cannot win all the time. Sometimes u can loose even to pugs that are just solid players/have better classes. Pug vs pug wont magically make it balanced. Sometimes its great to have 4 man premade when other 4 players suck hard. It might just show to these players who join pug and cry how its unfair premade stomped them that they arent trying hard enough and lack some basics, cooperation, skill or whatever and that this is the main reason why they are losing. And give solid players chance to prove themselves. Losing wz without any chance to fight back (6-0 huttball, unable to retake objectives...) make players frustrated. Losing after a bit balanced fight might give players feel that it wasnt so bad but they need to improve or work together better. I have even seen some "ok guys, its premade, leave or just let them cap if u need daily quest" post in wz. and then its hard to fight when half of your team already gave up. same its terrible when u make some premade and your enemies give up after 2mins so u r just afk near objective and waiting for end or to kill some loner that do not want to give up.

what the hell is reward for death? that u r able to use CC break? cmon even u cant be that ***. when u r killed u spend some time before u respawn and rejoin the fight, spend some time to get there. Possibly your team is already pushed back by heavy pressure (loss of dps/heal/tank allow enemy team to push) so u join them and start to push them back. assuming u all are talking about balanced fight. and about cap? do not tell me when u kill one guy guarding the node he get before u r able to cap it. and if there are more of them what about call for some support if u r alone. imagine u would be playing some rvr game (warhammer) where once u r hit by knockdown for 3 sec u get 30sec immunity to hard CC (kd, stagger = mez, disarm, silence) and when u r rooted u get 20-30sec immunity to soft CC (root, knockback, pull). even 9 sec aoe stagger were removed (3 sec atm) to improve the dynamic fights. loose of your character for 9 sec was pretty much enough time for enemies to cripple your grp. sure in that game it was all about CC healers, CC tanks, heal debuff dps and try to burst him down before healer get back to fight. but its different game, where u can kite enemies, no enemy except 1 is able to just jump on your ***, there are inc/outgoing heal debuffs, crit buffs, stats, armor buffs and debuffs etc. that just make it possible for good grp to do that. swtor do not have any of these grp tools so lack of grp synergy and defined class role is problem sry about that warhammer again playing some game over 3 years kinda makes me nostalgic sometimes

point is - u get same rewards for win vs premade and same reward for owning some pugs

I think u just trying to tell us pve for organised grp do not offer challenge at all. Sure. But try to compare it to low rank pve. When high rank grp complete it just by unarmed attacks in matter of minutes what kind of rewards do they get? Equal to their rank? Nope. Thats the main difference between pvp and pve in this game. U can make premade, storm some pugs without problems and get reward same as if u have to fight for it in rare cases when matchmaking accidentally match premade vs premade.