Rotation: 1) Saber Throw 2) Leap 3) Sunder Armor 4) Ravage 5a) Shatter 5b) If shatter procs -> ravage 6a) Impale 6b) If impale procs -> ravage 7) Sunder Armour 8) Scream 9) Smash - Repeat Thats pretty much how I'm doing it at the moment. Depending on Rampage proc I either move out of range and repeat from the top or if its a nuking phase use Enrage. I find getting Shatter up as soon as possible is the most important (moreso than hitting with Impale).

Okay as someone thats played all 3 specs to death here is my opinion... Full madness is something that should at least be TRIED once in an Assassins life. It is NOT for everyone. Hell its not for most people. But if you can pull it off you can do it in a big way. The secrets of the madness tree is Creeping terror (30m, small DoT and immobilize), Raze procs which are your key DPS, Death field timing (using in conjunction with recklessness + adrenal + relic) and Thrash / Shock combo work. Keeping discharge bleed up at all times is a given. Your target should never ever be short of this and CT. While running Shock buff your thrashes are hitting for 1500+ depending on gear per hit - and not giving away your spec so obviously as VS does. Keeping an eye on your DoTs and checking Raze procs isnt easy, hell in PVP its downright distracting. But you get used to it, it becomes second nature and you're dropping some major DPS without even looking. I prefer madness to deception. I hate having to rely on Maul, if Maul was quicker / more reliable for me I would like the spec more.

If you like the boom smackdown - Powertech is your way. Good DPS, heavy armour and some mean missile action.

Chances are you were a Deception SIN - its the worst spec by miles in terms of survival ability, and the damage isn't really that great either. Without uber gear, or uber gear on Khem at least, you will feel the results. Stealthing past mobs means its more likely that your SIN is underleveled. Remember you only get a healer companion at Hoth. Khem is a huge fatty I remember clicking him hundreds of times by accident. But seriously, at 40 - change to Darkness, use Talos and the rest of the game will be much better.

And as per usual, you have completely minimized / ignored peoples completely valid and correct information. Trolling for 15 pages straight... gotta be a record of some sort And please use a reliable source for your information, instead of making things up (as usual) Force Shroud = http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qAwuaY/force-shroud Untraited its 60 seconds CD. Which means 3 seconds every minute untraited

The way you reply makes me think you are still in school though. Let me make this as basic as possible. Shock is on 6 second CD. Wither is 7.5 seconds. Regardless of gear, you CANNOT decrease these cooldowns, needing 1 of the 2 to be used more than once to get 3 procs. So it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to do a 8 second rotation, with a 4 second channel skill. Please for the love of anything get this into your head. Stop IGNORING the GCD.

Lol. Lets use your rotation then as a reference point? Slow time - 30 Force (instant) GCD (1.5 seconds) Double Strike x 2 (25 force x2) (2 seconds min) - Slow time remaining cooldown - 4 seconds (30 force), then DS (25 force), Potency (1 second), GCD (1.5 seconds), Project (50 force), GCD (1.5 seconds), and Telekinetic, channeled for 4 seconds. Thats 4.5 seconds minimum lost to GCD. 5.5 seconds to Slow time. 3 seconds to 3x DS, and I'll give you a free Potency just to be nice. Then 4 seconds channel. Which equals? 17 seconds. Ignoring absolutely any conditions. Calling me names isn't improving your argument *Edit - Even by your own admission, and my maths being out by 9 seconds, its impossible to get 8 seconds on this rotation.

Sigh. Okay. So now I'm lying to be right, even though I can back up my statements with FACTS? GCD = 1.5 seconds Wither cooldown = 7.5 seconds Shock = 6 seconds Therefore, to get HD x 3 at the maximum possible rate: Shock, GCD, Wither, GCD, Shock, GCD, 4 seconds Lightning channel = 12 seconds. However, you cannot perform this action. You have to wait for force power, as Shock = 50 force. So you have to wait for Shock number 2, and then wait again for lightning, which is around 3 seconds. Add human delay / cast lag for 2 seconds. Thats 17 seconds. And you will be on low force. Nice try. If you won't listen to someone that plays the class you don't understand to correct your inaccurate assumptions about it, then you are a troll, plain and simple.

Red is an angry colour ok. Its clear you are angry that your Guardian lost. I know that feel bro. Sages win me. Any tank that is scoring 300k (its all AoE, but since you are ignoring that, lets just pretend it doesn't exist) is geared for dps not tanking, therefore loosing out on most of their defence / shield / absorb. 2k heals once every 3 HD procs is at the maximum every 20ish seconds if their HP is over 20k, which means their overall DPS is lower due to needing tanking mods / enhancements. You need less drama - no one is attacking you. We are against your blanketing / false statements. Calling for a nerf on the only Assassin line that works "as intented" is a bit much. We aren't hitting you for 3k + on any skill but assassinate crits.

Writing in RED does not make your argument more potent. The armour stance is to bring us in line with the other tanks in terms of straight mitigation. It doesn't come close. 8 stacks of shield CHANCE. What part of this is difficult? And no. Not 60%. You are also IGNORING the fact that shields only mitigate weapon damage, which is at the most 20% of the damage taken. Saber Ward - I read 12 seconds? Not to mention your 100% damage immunity for 2 seconds. Invincible - 40% of ALL damage types for 10 seconds. Ok? So you get 2 bubbles as we do. The positioning of the resistance is different, but the principle applies. As for Sunder armour, please learn your own class. Even I know (level 14 Jugg yay) that Sunder stacks a 4% per stack up to 20% (read 5 stacks). Traited with tier 1 traits you can get 8% per shot. IE my argument is based on facts. Read Crushing Blow for 3 stacks in 1. Are we a superior tank? No, we are good in a different way. If you were arguing that Guardian / Jugg is underpowered in the tank trait line, then you might actually get some support.

Alright then. Let me clarify. 1. Damage mitigation - Shadow / Assasins are weaker. We have less armour even in a tanking stance, and no "straight" damage mitigation from stance. 2. Never ending shield procs - I have a stack of 8, which gives me 40% (ish) CHANCE combined with my normal stats to shield for 20 seconds, so no guaranteed shield there. In PvP this doesn't go below 6 normally because of the rarity of shieldable damage / actual uses. Only weapon damage has a chance to proc this, as I said at 40%. 3. I have 3 seconds of Tech / Force immunity. My 50% damage bubble does not have a tech / force reduction component as yours does. 4. The force cost of Shock makes it impossible to spam. 50 force out of 100. Only with 3 procs of Harnessed can I heal with lightning, so you are getting hit for 600 damage Wither to build up HD. You are hitting me with 1500 damage Sunder armour. I have no way to reduce your armour. 5. We have utility because we lack base mitigation that you have. You don't have stims? Just asking here.

It's threads like this that reeeaaally get me going. So basically, you lost to an Assasin in a situational 1v1. Or you were constantly outplayed by an Assasin in a single WZ. Ignoring that the Tankassin could have been hugely more geared than you. Or running adrenals, stims and other Biochem awesomeness. Regardless of any outside circumstance, Assassins now (in your OPINION) require a nerf to their tanking spec. Since you are completely ignorant of the class, allow me to inform you. 1. Self heals - We have 2. One is a "on any hit" 450 point heal, which occurs at a maximum of once every 4.5 seconds. The second is a 12% (maximum possible) heal attached to a full force lightning channel. This requires 3 procs of Harnessed Darkness by casting shock or wither. ANY less than 3 procs = no healing. 2. Epic DPS - Lol? No. Plenty of AoE, yes. As a tankassin your skillset becomes more of an AoE damaging set than the other Assasin specs. You do NOT hit like a truck, you hit 5 targets like a wet noodle. 3. Inherent elemental / internal reductions - Yes, while buffed. You can get the 10% too, just ask your sage to help you out. What we dont get, is the far higher armour rating / defence. We don't get the 6% damage reduc from stance. Etc. Please, learn the class you are fighting before posting "what you think" is going on. You are wrong. PS. Roll Biochem. Then you might not post rubbish.

From everything I've read so far, this skill is absolutely amazing. Even on my low level Merc healer I can see that this skill is epic. What I would like to know, however, is how good is it really, at lvl 50 with (average / good) gear? I'm looking for numbers - so please respond with "I heal around XXXX" if you can. I am going to trait this, an insta-cast 0 heat heal is a damn given, I just want to know where its going in my rotation. Thanks in advance

My normal medals per WZ are around 8+ Taunt big groups then Cloak

As a deception spec, the only elite in the game that gave me trouble was that damn *Story Quest Elite* (@lvl 20ish). Everything else is a cakewalk. 2 sigs + adds? No problem. Trick with deception is gearing well and consistently. If your gear drops even slightly below bar you will see the impact. Gearing Khem to be as uber is key. Damage on procs, and hit like a truck for low force cost.