How is it invalid? That doesn't discredit the fact that he WAS amped by the Byss DS Nexus. I'll address the populations of Ziost, Byss, and Nathema here. While we don't know the exact population of Ziost, we do know for a fact that the planet was one of the Sith Empire's largest population centers. Situated in the heart of Imperial Space, Ziost has long played a vital role in the intricate history of the Sith. For thousands of years, in fact, the craggy, arid world served as the ancient Sith Empire's capital until infighting splintered its leadership. Today, Ziost remains an important commercial, political and population center of the Empire--this in spite of its shift from a warm climate with dense forests to a bitterly cold tundra. Whether this environmental turnabout is due to geological reasons or eons of dark side influence remains a subject of scholarly consideration. From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor: Codex Entry titled "Ziost.") So, Ziost's population was immense. And on top of the normal population, there was a good sized number of other Jedi and Sith on the planet at the time as well. Just as well, let's assume that Byss did have a larger population than Medriaas and Ziost. The difference is minimal, honestly, in the grand scheme of things. Sidious drained Byss SLOWLY, over long period of time. While also controlling the population of the planet with telepathy, you might think that makes it more impressive, but it really doesn't. He was draining them, which is true, but he would have been EXPENDING as much power to control the population as he was absorbing from them, on top of that, Byss was an incredibly potent Dark Side nexus. Meaning that Sidious had the aid of an external amp as well while performing this feat. Vitiate, on the other hand, drained the population nigh instantly, and disrupted the flow of the Force to the plane, just as he did on Medriaas. Every scrap of Force energy, on the planet, in the people on the planet, and surrounding the planet, all manipulated into one target, Vitiate. ___________________ Side note, another point I came up with. Vitiate negatively affected the workings of the Living Force and the Cosmic Force on both Medriaas and Ziost. The Force consists of two related, but distinct, elements: the Living Force and the Cosmic Force. The Living Force is generated by the energy of living beings throughout the galaxy. This is the Force at its most immediate and instinctive level. It is this aspect of the Force that allows for many of the impressive abilities that have fueled the aura of legend around the Jedi and Sith, and that still excites the galaxy's imagination. The ability to trick the minds of other beings, to sense their presence, and to manipulate physical objects all come from the Living Force. From (Star Wars: Force and Destiny - Core Rulebook) ^^^ This is relevant because Vitiate wiping out all life on the planets would have left a negative effect on the planet's connection to the Living Force. Now for the good part. He felt the first hints of what was waiting for him when the shuttle dropped out of hyperspace. Through the windows of the cockpit he saw a gray-and-brown planet looming large before them. Gazing at it, he felt something strange and unsettling. Something unnatural. It took him several moments to realize what was wrong, and even when he did, he didn’t fully grasp the implications. He wasn’t feeling the Force. The sensation was completely alien. The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form. Now, however, he felt nothing. He had become so accustomed to the presence of the Force in the background that its complete absence was almost overwhelming, leaving him unable to speak. “Prepare yourself,” Nyriss said. “We’re going down to the surface.” The absence grew steadily more pronounced as the shuttle approached and then landed on Nathema. From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan) The Force, not only on the planet, but AROUND the planet, was missing. Meaning Vitiate permanently damaged the Cosmic Force, leaving a hole. All of this power would have needed to go somewhere. So not only did Vitiate retain the power of the DS Nexus on Medriaas, and the power of the Sith and other denizens of the world, but also retained the power of the Force that surrounded the planet as well. This carries over to Ziost as well, as the results on Ziost are the same as the results of the Medriaas ritual. So, Vitiate has all that combined power at his disposal as Valkorion.

''The only reason Byss was a Dark Side Nexus was because if Sidious in the first place'' Lol what? Could you please be more clear? ''Dude stop making this thread.'' This is a DEBATE thread where my goal is to raise peoples' placement of Valkorion. Either counter my arguments, or concede you're wrong.

''His planet draining feats need either rituals or tons of death'' Considering the ritual on Nathema required the power of the 8,000 Sith to perform, Vitiate could replicate the ritual on his own in likely less time due to having the additional power of the planet and all its inhabitants plus the 8,000 Sith. After 1,300 years of growth it's not far fetched to say he could replicate it on his own with relative ease.

''Uh, no, Vitiate didn't "casually" drain Ziost, he needed tons of bloodshed to fuel that power. His planet draining feats need either rituals or tons of death. On top of which, he did not control the entire planet, which is mentioned by Lana whilst on Ziost.'' He did all that so he could reach his standard level of power, you should realize that he performed the feat with his standard level of power on his own, without outside help. ''On top of which, he did not control the entire planet'' he factually only targeted and controlled the Jedi and Imperial troops present on the planet, the tools that would best serve his purposes. Unleashed from his sanctuary on Yavin 4, the former Sith Emperor has now struck the Imperial world of Ziost. Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet’s Imperial troops--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter. From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor) Moving on to the subject of Palpatine’s Byss feat, it’s not nearly as impressive as you believe it is. 1: Byss is confirmed to be a Dark Side Nexus https://imgur.com/1527LpW https://imgur.com/XO6bZFL https://imgur.com/S2EFyZs https://imgur.com/KA7fcAp https://imgur.com/dfchtxP Anyway, you get the point. Byss is an EXTREMELY potent Dark Side nexus. Meaing, obviously, that Sidious was amped, likely very heavily, during this feat’s performance. Far more of an amp than can be argued for Vitiate on Ziost. The population center of Byss is not yet fully built, and the planet still feeds Palpatine and Vader. Due to the city not being built, it’s evident that your claim that Sidious drained the world for decades, is flat out false/ https://imgur.com/uY5vmbD https://imgur.com/oXO1vaY https://imgur.com/kaNdReO It should also be noted that Sidious had assistance in this feat, as his Dark Side acolytes were helping him. https://imgur.com/T2ABPlJ https://imgur.com/pKcJgYI As for Sidious' wormholes, i'm aware he could do it from across the Galaxy, this match of course won't take place ''across the galaxy'' but on a planet. And even if Sidious summons his wormholes, Valkorion could teleport and drain the planet.

It's true that Sidious is a superior swordsman, but many assume Vitiate is a bad duelist, that's not correct. Vitiate has used his lightsaber in the past, against the Hero of Tython. As well, to assume that one of the most powerful Sith in history wouldn't be able to use a lightsaber, makes no logical sense. Especially given that his master was implied to be Marka Ragnos, whom is noted as being an incredible swordsman. Plus, swordsmanship in general was still a staple of Sith training during the years of and before the Great Hyperspace War, the era that Vitiate initially lived during. More likely than not, he had skill in using a lightsaber, what degree is unknown, but he DID have some skill. Finally, Zakuul didn't have lightsabers before Vitiate possessed Valkorion and began to shape the Zakuul people into his own image. Somebody would have needed to teach the first Zakuul Knights how to use a lightsaber, and the only person there with any experience with lightsabers, was Vitiate/Valkorion.

Power scales to power, if he is powerful enough to perform these feats, then surely he could perform other VERY impressive feats as well, Valkorion's sorcery surpasses Sidious' own and he also has some VERY impressive lightning feats which are more than just on par with Sidious' lightning feats. And no Sidious won't be dominated, but Valkorion can teleport and casually drain the planet along with Sidious as he did Ziost.

I am aware of that. Many tend to point to the most powerful darksider quotes for Sidious as a way to indisputably bind Valkorion below other force users; however, they seem to support the Son's superiority to Sidious, (something that explicitly contradicts Sidious being the most powerful darksider ever). The following quotes are the ones generally referred to. It’s important to note that the first quote is from is from Luke’s point of view, and Luke had no knowledge of The Ones at this point (other than a story Yoda told him, which at the time he thought was just a story to scare him). The quotes state that Sidious is the most powerful darksider, with no exceptions being implied in the text: It quickly became clear to Luke that this decrepit and seemingly defenseless old man was masterfully adept in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force. Indeed, as Vader had warned, the Emperor had become the Dark Side's most powerful expression. --Dark Empire endnotes Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook However, the Son’s/Abeloth’s quotes directly contradict Sidious being the most powerful darksider ever: The Son was not a Sith -- his powers existed beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. -- Encyclopedia: Son it was no good. Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had, and he could do no more than keep her from crushing his throat. Source: Fate of the Jedi: Vortex You're still thinking on a mortal scale, like Vader or Palpatine. Think bigger, like a storm or a tide. Like a living Force volcano. Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse The third panel depicted the arcade complex again, this time with a much-changed Abeloth standing in the heart of a stormy courtyard. Her hair had grown coarse and long, her nose had flattened until it was practically gone, and her sparkling eyes had grown so sunken and dark that all that could be seen of them were the twinkles. She was raising her arms toward a cowering Daughter and a glowering Son, with long tentacles lashing from where her fingers should have been. Stepping forward to shield them was a furious Father, one hand pointing toward the swamp at the open end of the temple, the other reaching out to intercept her tentacled fingers. Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse "Abeloth." Luke repressed a sigh. "She's here. Somewhere. Experimenting. Using the Force with greater strength than I ever did, certainly."-FOTJ: Conviction So essentially, the quotes claiming Sidious is the most powerful darksider ever are explicitly contradicted and are literally false. They carry no definitive value.

Let's start by Vitiate's mind domination feats and planetary drain feats, which are above Sidious' own. Vitiate has some very impressive mental domination feats over individuals. Dominating the population of Ziost and casually draining the planet while at a VASTLY weakened state. Breaking Dramath’s mind and stripping him of the Force at a young age: Tenebrae broke Lord Dramath's mind, but not before revealing that he was actually his son. From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia Casually breaking the wills of both Revan and Malak, simultaneously: By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War. From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia) Dominating the minds of the Jedi Strike team sent to kill him, this team includes the Hero of Tython, who even by the end of Act 1, has accolades stating he’s more powerful than the likes of Satele Shan. Jedi Master Tol Braga's strike team was not the first group to succumb to the Sith leader's oppressive influence. From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight).") On top of that, there are the 8000 Sith Lords whose wills he dominated on Medriaas. And the Sith Lords were driven by fear. Many thought the Jedi would soon wipe them all out. They were desperate for anything they could use as a weapon against the servants of the light side. Lord Vitiate played upon these fears, convincing those who answered his call to set aside their suspicions of him and of one another to join in a single glorious cause. Once they arrived on Nathema, they quickly fell under Lord Vitiate's control. He dominated their minds, crushed their resistance. He turned them into slaves to his will, forcing them to participate in the most complex ritual of Sith sorcery ever attempted. Calling on the dark side, Lord Vitiate devoured them. He fed on their power, absorbing it into himself, utterly obliterating all traces of his victims. But the ritual was not confined to the doomed Sith Lords. They were but the eye of the storm; the center of a vortex that spread across the entire planet. Every man, woman, and child on Nathema died that day. Every beast, bird, and fish; all the insects and plants; every living being touched by the Force was consumed. When the ritual ended, Nathema was no longer a world. It was a husk sucked dry. Lord Vitiate sacrificed millions, stealing their life force to make himself immortal. Their deaths also made him stronger than any Sith who had come before, and he ceased to be known as Lord Vitiate. On that day, the Emperor was truly born. From (Darth Nyriss, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan) Eight thousand Sith Lords gathered on Medriaas and agreed to partake in a ritual that would bind the Sith together as an ultimate dark side weapon. The ritual lasted ten days. Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Mediraas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. When the ritual ended, Lord Vitiate emerged as the only survivor. The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries. The lifeless planet of Mediraas became a void in the Force and was erased from history. From that moment forward, the world would forever be known as Nathema, birthplace of the one and only Sith Emperor. From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia) | As for his planetary drain feats, a vastly weakened Vitiate casually drained Ziost.

I am aware, but many people seem to lowball Valkorion and overrate Sidious way too much, so i'd like to argue that Sidious has nothing over Valkorion other than his force storms which even those, he couldn't fully control, so his force storms won't be applicable in combat since they would kill him as well. The quotes stating Sidious is the most powerful Dark Sider/Sith are inherently incorrect, given those very same accolades would place Sidious above the likes of the Son and Abeloth, which is most certainly not true in any manner. As well, Sidious' GOAT quotes are unsupported, given that there are other Sith with feats more impressive than Sidious' own. Even Leland Chee has said quotes can be questioned if contradicted or unsupported. Also, Pablo Hidalgo has said that a character accolade being fact is dependent on who's saying it. "Depends who's making the statement and whether or not they have the unbiased perspective, authority, and experience to do so."

This is a debate thread, a VS match between Valkorion and Sidious both prime.