So much THIS. Hire the OP.

I approve of this SO HARD.

OMG this is SO MUCH BETTER. YUS.

Calling someone super sensitive for pointing something out is a little much, don't you think? Nothing stops you from running to a store, buying and wearing a bikin IRL, why have that restriction in game? That's why it's silly. Likewise, there is literally no difference between "lower robes" and floor length "skirts" yet, for some reason, the "skirts" available in game are restricted to women as well... Which, actually makes even less sense. Finally, the formal attire that's restricted to men is, essentially, a suit. Again, what is to keep a female character from doning this attire, should she feel the desire to? Again, nothing but an arbitrary string of code. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have the right to keep others from the same. It's that simple. Additionally, removing a flag from the game is, at most, a few lines of code and, therefore, simple. I suppose it could be both simple and stupid if you want; the two are not mutually exclusive terms. Personally, I don't see what's so bad about people enjoying things in different ways so long as no one's being hurt. C'est la vie, I guess.

Oh absolutely! My problem is less the case that she keeps throwing herself at my consular and more that it's impossible for me to reject her. I know most of this stems from flagging something by calling her "more than a padawan" - which, she was, to my consular, more like a little sister than a padawan and I wanted to recognize that. Of course, after the fact I realized what this did and attempted to rectify it in the next two conversations, which seemed to work, but then, suddenly, her third(?) conversation after that was basically rigged so that of MY three final choices, initiating a kiss is ALWAYS what happens. And I was just sitting there like ".... what?" I've seen clips of characters much farther along in other romances that STILL had options to wriggle their way out and I wouldn't even consider the dialogue I chose up until this point to be romantic. I was basically like "oh... that's nice... HERE HAVE A BOOK" or "um... I appreciate the affection but NO MEANS NO" and if Nadia had been the one, in this particular scene, to initiate the kiss - that's one thing. That's her character (at the moment). She's emotional. She's been through a lot. I understand that. But no. It's MY character seemingly initiating something I want no part in and have routinely attempted to step away from via dialogue options. It's just like "... but why tho?"

Yeah, I kind of figured people were associating me with her after some of the other responses I got. Thankfully, most everyone still managed to keep a cool head in spite of the poking. Probably doesn't help to have the same avatar, heh. I think I'll go find another one

^^^^^^^ This. Everything about that opening post is a large part of what I'd rather not be associated with - and all you have to do is read through the thread to see how it affected peoples' replies to me, who originally posted something that was rather against the execution of the original post. Not backing down is one thing. Exposing harsh truths is one thing. Pointing out uncomfortable notions and saying "you can't just push this aside!" can even be honorable.... but being intentionally antagonistic is just going to negatively affect whatever topic or truth it is you so want "discussed" and any possible solution for it. In other words: stop it. If you're seriously trying to come off as "this was an experiment, WELL DONE, LOVELIES" then you obviously have no concept of basic human decency and certainly no respect for your fellow human beings. If you want to discuss, then prompt and discuss. Don't go baiting for vitriol. Not enough facepalm.jpg for this.

I've seen this discussion a million times in comics - women bringing up sexual objectification and the retort of "well, men are always muscular and in such good shape, etc.... etc... So it's not like they're the only ones." That's a male power fantasy, not a male sexual objectification. Here's some links, if you'd like to read up on this: Good Comics Article On Female Sexual Objectification Short Summary By Division Zero On Male Power Fantasies vs Female Sexual Objectification with Excellent Links To Other Sources The Border House: "To dudes who think gaming is “sexist against men”: YOU’RE WRONG." These writers are far more in depth and articulate on the topic and it's something that extends far beyond the range of comics into most everything we consume as entertainment. I hope you and others in this thread, will enjoy the reading.

If someone is offended by it, then it is, by definition, offensive. Is it AS offensive as other things? No. But it IS a quick and easy fix and I think it should be considered. That's all I'm saying.

Again, keeping this short. You seem to be taking this a lot harder than I am. I merely suggested they remove the needless gender flag for clothes. I think you might me confusing me with the OP, as well, so just for clarification's sake; I'm the one who posted after the fact, in response to the OP that her rant wasn't a suggestion and used the bikini issue as an example of one. I never once freaked out, or threatened, or really did anything other than say "it's ridiculous, please remove it." You are blowing this waaaaay out of proportion. I never said, nor even implied there weren't other problems (especially technical) with the game that needed addressing as well or beforehand. In fact, if you looked at my posting history, you'd see that I've even posted on that as well. I pointed out two things, as suggestions, that I would like changed because I found them needlessly limiting. Not even really all that offensive (I believe you first brought that term into play, even), but because I literally had a moment of "the heck?" while playing when I encountered them. That is what a suggestions forum is for. Just because you don't have a problem with it, or it's at a different position of priority in your life, doesn't change it's validity as a suggestion. On a side note: please stop assuming to know the opinions of people not involved in this conversation. If people haven't spoken up on a topic, it doesn't automatically mean they agree with whatever form what was being debated currently exists in. That logic would thereafter imply that I agreed with it for months before ever posted a commentary on it, which, obviously, is wrong. At this point, we aren't even pretending to debate the suggestion itself and, therefore, I take my leave to actually go play the game. Shocker, I know, but I am capable of acknowledging deficiencies while still enjoying the product.

... Wow. Okay. There's so much going on here I'm not even sure where to start, to be completely honest with you. I'm just going to bullet this out. There's nothing inherently wrong with being offended by something There's no "right way" to go about demanding equality I'm not being angry or aggressive although I'm irritated that you keep implying I'm somehow incapable of controlling my emotions because I brought up something that we disagree on Just because Bioware is changing one thing does not mean they are exempt from criticism The technical difficulties argument RE gendered clothing was blown out of the water a couple posts up When someone of the affected group claims offense to something at least consider their opinion instead of completely pushing it aside Even though you claim this isn't the case, you've built your entire argument around "*I* didn't get *offended* so why should you?" ALL video games and television is like this, thus why it CANNOT be ignored. Thus why it is a social NORM. It is the default. The "normal". Thus why it needs to be addressed. In short: if you don't have a problem with what I'm suggesting, then why are you arguing it? If you disagree with civil discourse over a problem, then what is your preferred course of action? Because right now it really sounds like "sit down and shut up." This, again, does not solve nor improve anything.

You know, I never noticed that, but it's a very good insight! Thank you for your input Sheds new light on the "technical difficulties" defense that was, admittedly, shaky to begin with.

It's not purposefully sexist, no. I don't believe they honestly made the decision that they'd only produce the model for women because clearly they're the only gender that needs to be sexually objectified Saying it's not sexist at all is going a bit far, though. It's another one of those sneaky social norms that often times people aren't even aware is sexist or rooted in sexism. "Why would a guy need a bikini top anyway? Can't they just go topless?" Well, yes, they can. Because their bodies have not been sexuallized to the point that their ******s are considered obscene. ... wow. Thanks forum for completely proving my point? Apparently mentioning the body part at the tip of a woman's mammary glands that is circled by an areola needs to be censored like a swear word.

And I think you're not looking far enough. Social norms need to be changed. They will not be changed if they are not challenged. This is one form of challenging them. Bioware's a big company. It and EA can take care of themselves just like they have with regards to adding in homosexual relationship content. I expect them to be able to take some criticism. This is one of it. There's absolutely no reason my guy can't wear a "skirt" when he can wear something that looks almost exactly the same under the separate term "lower robes". It's just silly. Likewise, I think I know what I find offensive and what I don't, thanks. I'm going to go out on a limb and call this "I'm okay with it, so you should be too". That's not true. You're okay with it because your interests are served. You seem think that because you would be okay with equality that it somehow makes it okay for you to turn around and chastise people actually demanding such equality. That's a bit hypocritical don't you think? If you're "totally for it" then shouldn't you be "for" my suggestions? Saying I'm starting a war over simply suggesting a significantly easy fix to perceived/actual inequality issues doesn't exactly position you in the "ally" camp well at all. If you're for gender equality, then be for it. Telling people to relax and not get so upset over things just as bad as people that perpetrate the insult to begin with. Sexism is a social norm. It needs to be deconstructed. Please understand that this entire post just reeks of apologism. Do you understand why that is? I understand that you seem to agree theoretically with me, but everything you've said after that agreement has been written to excuse things for being the way they are and dismiss the need for change. That is no longer agreeing. That's silencing.

Just like they can adapt the models of coats, skirts, pants, boots, etc... to the other characters, so too could they have adjusted the bikini model. It just takes a tiny bit of extra work. It seems like they made it thinking only women would wever want to wear any of it so "why bother"? Well, they're wrong, that's why