Pretty much true. But Dps is easy, its basically the easiest mechanic in the game. And your even given a dummy to practice over and over on. So when there is less damage going out, less people to look out for, less collateral damage, the fight mechanics are easier and you can focus on DPS which is not hard to begin with... where is the challenge, where is the precision. Again this thread was created to show that EA has changed a fight to a particular strat on Thrasher. And that strat required God Mode dps in 72 gear, but is easier now in 75 gear so people are calling it cheese. So be it. Some would say that rolling into TFB 16M with 75 gear, 2 months after release, brandishing them world first titles on post nerf fights, is total cheese. I wouldn't say that. I would say .....Welcome to the Majors mother****** 8M - alt mode 16M - champ mode Some things will never change.

Welcome back to the big leagues

I have nothing but respect for DnT guys. Even when you had to go through that whole 8man ordeal on tfb, it happened and you trucked along. I'm sure with your leadership, if you had the opportunity, you would rather take on the 16m than the 8m. The whole precision thing really makes no sense after a certain point. I caught a stream of DnT a couple of weeks ago, and you had many 8m attempts on TFB with a dps down for two tenticles phases in phase 2 and still was able to almost squeak it out. But you make it seem like, as soon as anyone dies in 8m its game over, when clearly its not. Once you have competent dps, its not an issue anymore. It has not been an issue where omg, we only have dps that can do 2900 and we need 3100. Dps is the easiest thing to do in the game, so once you have competent dps, it comes down to mechanics and coordination. This whole precision thing sounds like a made up conjecture to prop up a certain point of view. instead I would expect people to step up and think outside the box Or more to the point, once you have good enough dps to be precise, the real challenge kicks in 16, where it is lacking 8m.

for anyone outside of these banters reading this, realize that never , ever, EVER, will you see an 8man group say "hey, lets jump this to 16man to clear this easy mode". But what you will see, and we have witnessed, is 16man groups say , "we are dropping this to 8man to clear this and get loot" after a night of wiping near the end of the weekly reset. There is a reason for this. the ultimate challenge is at 16man. What you will see is people not looking to step up or take on the challenge to prop themselves up to the same level. This of course is obvious and only makes them look tired post after post. winning the little league world series DOES NOT EQUAL winning the world series.

This thread has delivered!

The SG strat has only become cheesy because 75 gearing has made it easier. You are forcing a hard engrage on yourself and racing against imminent death.....not something you would definitely want to choose to do. In 72 gear, you needed some of the best dps in the world to handle this, evident by the fact that only several 16m teams have cleared this fight.

Thin, You should read through some of the forum posts, from what I read the fights have been nerfed for whatever thats worth.

Grats dude. I haven't played in a while and didn't know DnT was fielding a 16m again. But its good to hear that you guys stepped up instead of festering in the minor leagues of 8m.

Caught part of their stream, they seemed have their act together and would have taken it down even with out the red reticule fix. Getting to the 3 sniper pack, while a pain, was not really the block in this fight so this bug fix is a minor nerf. What is interesting is now the kills on Thrasher involve "dps racing" the sniper packs instead of taken out the adds, which makes me wonder how the fight was "intended" to be done.

Kano...............Liu Kang...............Braeden...............Johnny Cage............

Congrats on the Kill. Take pride in accomplishing this before the expansion. On Nightmare you cannot "outgear" it. it requires much attention and motivation. Well deserved.

If you follow the ranking thread for 16M here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553172 you will see POTF has 4 guilds competing and able to clear 16 EC Nim Two on Republic and Two on Empire. There may be other guilds listed as above that may be clearing content but not posting results. If your looking for advice for a character to roll, it may be wise to roll someone that could run in multiple roles. Vanguard dps/tank, Commando dps/heal, Sage heal/dps (especially after 2.0).... obviously i play pub side. Guess you couldn't go wrong with dps or heal, as most 16M will have their tanks situated. Good Luck. Prophecy does have some decent end game raiding guilds, and some of the best pvp to go along with it.

It should be implemented that we can personalize our scrambling field especially now that you don't need to be stuck in cover to deploy it. I think having unique colors , banners, items in the "bubble" would be nice to differentiate from other gunslingers and snipers in the raid. -Braedenz

That was my Torparse with the 4300 dps. Yes it was on Fabricator in Karagga's Palace on story mode as I was in a random group finder for a weekly BH comms run. Every time I am in such a run, I have to run the puzzle due to the lack of pug talent to solve the puzzle. I managed to find a group that could run it, and having a guild member post a +4000 dps on such a fight, i tried to dps as best I could. I got a little overzealous plus poor puzzle solving but ended up with 4300ish dps. The key is to know your fight, know your rotation. Gear does not make the player. I would rather take an undergeared alt of a quality player than someone who has gear by being carried by their raid. Also ignore many Overall on torparse, check specific fights, only look at kill shots, try and find where not just the top class dps is, but where several others are in comparison.

When I was SS, i used to use Vital shot with some sort of relic/adrenal. Mainly, XSFF + Vital Shot + adrenal, then into rotation. This way it would get the benefit of the +power while maintaining a standard rotation afterwards. Basically your stacking damage that benefits from the relic/adrenal. it can be used situationally depending on the fight, but for the most part, you do not want it part of your rotation unless you can gain from it like above or on the move.