Anyone should be deader than dead 2on1. You should be dead 1on1 without help. Your phrasing is so entitled like "well losing 2v1 is means I'm balanced". Really? Of course you should lose 2on1, I don't care what class you play. Your posts are painful to read. He's fully occupying the DPS as well, more than occupying. A healer shouldn't be this paragon role of uberness which 1 enemy merely "occupies" the time of. Like I said, your phrasing is beyond entitled. Let's list the main spells an Operative uses to see what I can interrupt... - Kolto Probe? Nope. - Surgical Probe? Nope. - Recuperative Nanotech? Nope. - Their cleansing dispel which also heals? Nope. - Kolto Injection? The weak filler heal? Ah, alright, there we go. I can interrupt THAT... while the vast majority of their healing performance is uninterruptable and undispellable AND dirt cheap on resource cost. A Sorc/Sage isn't much better. Their spammable bubble AND their short cd HOT are both instant. Their channelled spell is almost certain to tick 1-2x before being interrupted AND has a cooldown shorter than most interrupts, which makes it not worth interrupting, since they already got a sizeable heal off AND leaves you unable to interrupt their filler. Like Operative, Sorc/Sage leaves you in a spot where you can only interrupt their filler which isn't the bulk of their healing output. Their big AOE heal is interruptable at least, which is something. Players who are ignorant of healing specs should refrain from making off-hand comments trying to smugly imply that other players are bad. That does sound like a reasonable potential solution... but one that basically kills all Merc/Commando healers completely. Moving Healing Scan to Instant cast might be an additional adjustment for them to at least not leave them worse than currently. I dislike playing healing specs because I don't like being dependent on others if I'm caught in a 1v1 or 1v2 or even just a generally split up engagement. My solution isn't "OMG LET'S BUFF HEALERS TO DOMINATE ALL SIZES OF GAMEPLAY", my solution is to recognize that healing in PVP isn't really for me as a player. A LOT of healers posting against me in this thread only heal because it is so dominating right now, they wouldn't heal if they actually had to be dependent on teammates. In the olden days or yore, a long time ago, galaxy, far away, etc... it boiled down to individual competency and communication on the enemy team. It was entirely possible to go 1 match untouched and the next match killed on sight. Nowadays, the latter just isn't an option most of the time because of how disproportinately powerful healing is. Good DPS prioritizing healers cannot shut down even an unsupported healer alone, let alone a supported one. (Individual skill/gear always matters, this is a generalization.) In lv55 PVP, against premades stacking healers or against pugs with a lot of healers, the match boils down to a "Why bother? They won't die anyway.".

Sounds like your healer shouldn't be 1v1ing. Maybe your team support role needs to be providing and attracting TEAM SUPPORT. If healer is 1v1ing, you're right, there's no point in that player being a healer. Find a healer who knows how to play a healer. Requiring a TEAM to take down A player-anything is stupid. It should require a team to beat a team, sure. It should not require a team to kill a lone healer, ever, under any circumstances. It did require teamwork before to kill a healer as part of a team, you had to isolate them so that the dps could do their 1on1 job of killing the healer. If the healer was guarded or being cross-healed, they wouldn't die unless another player was CCing/distracting the other tank, healer, dps-peeler, etc. Currently you need to have 2 dps on the healer before any other modifiers just to have any hope of killing them within a respawn window. If you have 1 dps chasing 1 healer, that healer ain't dying before the respawn timers have passed a few times. Healers who didn't know how to play with a team, as a team, got mad that dps could 1v1 them so healing got buffed to the point that the game is degenerate. If a healer doesn't have team support, that isn't even necessarily the healer's fault, but it SHOULD be a DEAD healer and quickly. It's frustrating, but it's what you signed up for when you want to roll with a team role. If you want to be a solo champ, then don't complain when your team support options are limited. If you're gonna be a big source of team support, don't whine about someone else killing you badly 1on1. Like I said, a massively entitled attitude that healers feel they should do anything better than die horribly out alone. You should get what you sign up for role-wise. If your tank is disatisfied his damage is low, he shouldn't be a tank. If your healer is upset he dies 1on1, he shouldn't be a healer. If your dps is upset they can't make a big impact in big battles, they should be a tank/healer instead. Unfortunately, the current state of affairs is the healers just dominate all categories making 1v1s and team engagements take so long that the actual dps role is a moot point. It's a lose-lose when stacked healers are involved. If those 6 in mid had the healers instead, they just don't die until respawn timers. If you send equal or less, you make no progress. If you send more, you have no defense.

LOL I think that's about the extent of my response needed. Apparently Healer is a valid 1v1 "role" and not a team support role. You should outheal the enemy and defeat him with angry emotes, or something, I don't even know. This is one fo those things that's so silly that it just makes your brain implode trying to read it. Not at all. DPS = I see enemy, I can attack enemy. Tank = Enemy sees me, I can endure enemy attacks. Healer = Doesn't directly interact with the enemy, interacts with teammates. Sure you can sit in a corner alone and heal yourself, but then... who are you healing? You may as well not even be healing if you're not healing the team. A comparison was made to flashpoints, so what good is a healer who only heals themself? What good is a dps that isn't attacking enemies? What good is a tank that isn't taking hits from enemies? A healer's use is dependent on healing the team, a healer without a team isn't doing anything and may as well not be there. DPS and Tanks aren't dependent on allies present to perform their roles (that is not to say they don't have roles without allies present). Healers by definition don't have a role without allies present. DPS and Tanks don't have a role without enemies present. That is the difference between the roles. A healer should die without a team. A healer shouldn't be beating a competent DPS and should not be delaying the competent DPS so much that multiple respawn phases pass. (It isn't uncommon for a healer to just plain win against DPS specs that cannot heal themselves though.) The healer and tank roles scale UP as more players get involved. A healer's survivability skyrockets with Guard on them, a tank's Taunt actually DOES something with other players involved. A DPS will (barring AOE/DOTs) never be more than they were 1on1... they may live longer thanks to support roles, but their DPS output doesn't go up because a teammate is nearby (it may scale up from more ENEMIES to hit, but DPS output doesn't increase from allies being nearby, excluding some buffs/debuffs provided). I don't understand why there is so much anti-DPS bias, that DPS need to be nerfed to not be able to beat anyone who isn't DPS. Apparently DPS aren't supposed to be good at anything in any conflict size? DPS don't functionally scale up as conflict size increases. AOEs and mutli-DOTs increase damage a bit (though often at increased resource costs which is expensive on sustainability). Tanks scale up a bit, their Guard and Taunts become useful. Healers scale up more, damage is distributed among more targets at once, making healing easier (easier than healing just yourself alone, for example), guard and taunt effects as well as CC effects also inhibit damage done. Damage sustainability goes down as conflict size increases, healing becomes easier. So if DPS can't win 1on1 (or can't win within a reasonable timeframe) and get worse as conflict size increases, what are DPS good at then? Which is too much, especially on an uninterruptable class like Operative/Scoundrel, when damage gets scaled down so much by CCs and Taunts, while healing doesn't. Taunting doesn't make healing heal for less. CCs don't stop HOTs. Interrupts sure stop your Lightning Strike or Grav Round, but it's pretty one-sided when you have nothing to interrupt in return. Most DOTs are cheaper to dispel (which is itself talent into a cost-effective heal on top of the debuff remove) than the dispel is to cast, but HOTs aren't dispellable. Damage already scales down with conflict size while healing becomes easier. Put these factors together and, even giving you the 60% in a vacuum as a freebie... it quickly scales to a 2x or more margin in an actual pvp environment.

Not at all. Healers are overpowered in 1v1 (except maybe Merc/Commando) in that, even IF they lose, it takes SO long that 2-4 respawn timers have passed. Their performance scales UP in larger conflicts. So healers are overpowered in all senses. Healers should be terrible 1v1, they're a support role that is supposed to be heavily dependent on others. It's not Pugs vs Premades that is the problem. Premades do disproprtionately stack healers or hybrid specs to carry them to easy wins that have nothing to do with coordination or skill though. Premades are fine, but premades notoriously stack whatever is the most overpowered at a given time and milk it, then attribute their wins to "skill" so as to feed their ego. Being able to play with friends and what-not is an important aspect of online gaming. For example, your typical scoreboard results: Max healing - 800k, not counting large amounts of overhealing Max damage - 500k, typically with a lot of wasted AOE/multi-DOT inflation that was meditated off out of combat Varies by warzone, duration of said warzone, level bracket, gear levels, etc but this is a common and ever-present example. What such a number doesn't show is that the healer isn't even taxing themself on output, whereas the damage dealer is expending every possible ounce of resource and inflation... to fall woefully short of healing output. DPS is constantly expending resources at the fastest sustainable rate, it's how the role plays. Healers aren't, most times they're barely even trying. Healer output in most circumstances is easily 2x damage output. This game is broken, and max-level PVP is a thoroughly unpleasant experience. The only people who approve of the current situation are those exploiting the current situation... and sadly, they don't realize how foolish they are. Winning by explotiation may be "fun" for a while but it gets boring. Facing other exploiters in the dumbest stallfests possible... gets annoying and loses its appeal. It's not productive to a fun experience even for the players involved, but the free wins barely feed their ego enough for them to mistake it for fun. LOL This too. The gameplay is downright degenerate. So many Novare and ACW and Voidstar games boil down to who capped nodes first, because good luck capping much of anything once the match is in-progress. I've had far too many Novare and ACW matches where control of objectives didn't change all game long. Once an objective was captured, control never changed, so whoever got mid first auto-won because of the stallfest.

It's an exponential effect. If 1 competent dps isn't going to be reasonably able to kill 1 competent healer, then what happens when a 2nd dps and a tank or 2nd healer get involved? How do you capture a node within a reasonable timeframe when you cannot send an equal number of players and reasonably expect even a possibility success? Healers are a team role and get better in teams, they SHOULD be bad solo. You SHOULD be playing your healer as a team player, not sitting on a node cuz "lol can't die 1v1 for a good minute or so". Healers feel entitled to be good in every capacity, in a team, in a duo, solo, etc. And this is the result. That's not the only point but is a relevant one, and at least one of the central thrusts of my initial post. There are a lot of points about the negative impact healers being overpowered is having on the game. I love Huttball but even a lot of my Huttball matches have degenerated down to "Who can dodge the endgame timer in a 0-0?" and that's no good. No one even runs the ball because it involves leaving the healers who are in mid, and thus you die, so there's no offense going on. I've also heard the opposite, the healers are on offense so much that no one plays defense and the game is who can click the ball respawn the fastest because scoring becomes a given. Either scenario is a pretty degenerate collapse of warzone mechanics. As stated before, ACW boils down to who clicked their side turret first and got up 10-0, because no one's going to die at mid or on the sides. If they do, then one team auto-wins because you'll never recap the objectives in time to turn it around.

When it is due to good gameplay, not due to "lol heals no one dies". An imbalanced game where people don't die because specs are overpowered is not fun. Actually that point isn't valid, without context. Teamwork should NOT be required to kill a healer just because "lol a healer". Teamwork should be required in a TEAM vs TEAM situation. It should not take more than 1 person to kill 1 solo healer, within a reasonable timeframe. Healers are a TEAM role and should be effective in such, but they shouldn't also just dominate solo situations as well. When Merc/Commando does well, it's in a team. You won't see solo Merc/Commandos getting chased by 2+ people and taking forever to die. You will constantly see solo Sorc/Ops getting chased by multiple people and not dying due to their instant heals and escape mechanisms. So no, the point is NOT universally valid. A healer without a team should be a dead healer, and pretty quickly at that. A healer within the context of a team (who can guard, taunt, peel, stun, etc) should require some coordination from the other team to die. They should also suffer performance decrease from being the focus of attention, not this "My heals only INCREASE because I can Kolto Probe MORE people! lol". I am familiar and that is the point. There's no strategy in being overpowered. Voidstar was changed with that giant gate in the middle precisely because it was so easy to turtle the first set of doors with healers. Now, healing has inflated SO much that once again max level Voidstar will often turn into a turtle fest. The warzone literally had to be changed because of the impact healing output had on it... and healing output has gotten so much MORE out of control that even the change was overcome. There was a time when the change came down that Voidstar matches actually ended based on who reached the latter doors or datacore first, because BOTH teams were often able to make legitimate progress! Shouldn't be able to run away with Kolto Probes and just not-die without being heavily ganged up on. If I'm a healer running off alone, I should be dead. And that is the problem. The support role is beating out the solo role and then scaling UP when teams are involved. Keep in mind that the recorded damage output is still inflated with some wasted unproductive damage. The healing output is STILL understated thanks to overhealing. Assuming similar skill levels, it will still boil down to the individual classes involved. Several of the dps specs can still off-heal in dps spec, as well as taunt (or even guard), so the dps team will suffer very few casualties. Lack of taunt and guard on the healer team kills their utility in this absurd scenario. Poor damage output combined with lacking as much secondary role utility would likely doom a straight-healer team. The warzone itself also matters. The scenario favors the dps team due to flexibility in class composition being anything from among 8 classes and the utility that comes from that flexibility. The healer team only has 3 functional classes and lacks all access to off-tank utility. Now if it was All Healers vs Marauder+Sniper only... I'd say the healer team has the edge in most warzones. Snipers can be LOSd a lot while the Marauders can be chain CCed, making it hard for the DPS only classes to focus players down, especially in a timely manner. The healing team can constantly rotate around its players while injured players LOS the snipers. Both teams die very slowly but if either side is going to manage a clean-sweep long enough to get a 2-1 objective lead, I'd give to to the healer team. A pointless hypothetical but it was fun to speculate.

People assume the DPS were bad because that's how they justify to themselves that they are "skilled" when their healer-crutch premade wins. Clearly they who win are skilled and their enemies who lost were "bad", how can you not see that this only boils down to skill? THAT is the kind of ego-driven logic you're competing with. Healing really doesn't guarantee victory. If you're too dumb to watch the pylon/door/turret/bunker or can't throw a huttball, healing can't fix that. There ARE objectives in Warzones. Judging from his description, I'd assume it was some Voidstar slugfest. I've been in Voidstar slugfests where one side completely dominates the other in output (dps and healing, usually high dps because of the healing) and then, because no doors were lost, a coin flip at the end just gives it to one side... or maybe 1 door was lost really late in a round and the underdog team manages to snipe a victory. Bad DPS can pull twice that just because a healer keeps them alive an entire match. Good DPS can pull half that because they're killed on sight without healer support. Clearly though, you and your guildies in your premade are awesome, and your healing/damage numbers are only because of skill... and NOT because overpowered healing keeps your dps alive longer to increase their damage done. I've actually softened a lot on the Merc/Commando side, as you may have noticed in several of my progressive posts. You guys have a lot of hardcasts which makes you capable of BEING focused and BEING interrupted. If any healing spec is ACTUALLY balanced, it'd be you guys and you guys ONLY. Don't forget that overhealing and unused force bubble wasn't included. Sage's true output is probably another 100-200k above that. Ignorance at its finest. Salvation requiring everyone to stack in it, for one thing, would subject the entire team to a ton of free AOE bonus damage. Furthermore, the Sage DIED several times (7 actually), meaning he spent upwards of 3-4min not even participating in the warzone. Further beyond that, thanks to how Sage/Sorc resources work, he poentially could've burned a LOT more Force spamming Benevolence/Dark Heal and inflating his numbers even more. Your ignorance of warzone and class mechanics causes you to not realize that the Sage/Sorc could easily pull twice what he was doing... and MORE if he didn't die. His actual output as a healer was at least twice what the other team's top dps was.... and he died 7 times as often. That was the point. Pretty much. A lot of Healers want an I Win Button. They feel they should be worth more than 1 player 1on1 and exponentially worth more in a team scenario. They just don't want to have to deal with that whole "team" mechanic to be good, they should be better than "scrub dps" even when solo. "My 1 healer is supposed to be 1/4 of the team therefore I should heal equal to 4 players' worth of damage"... followed by promptly packing 3-4 healers or hybrids in an 8-man team. People are supposed to die in warzones. Healing is supposed to slow that rate for your team, not prevent it entirely. Not necessarily terrible, but definitely mediocre. And they don't want to be on the same level as those "scrubs" and pugs. They're "better" than them. The point of the video seems to be not whether or not the tank + healers COULD be killed by focusing the heals, but as a demonstration that the output of the freecasting healers is SO high that it completely nulls the damage on the tank. Which is back to the point that healers are mathematically overpowered. I will agree that obviously bad decision making like that shouldn't pan out but such a huge discrepancy in healer vs dps output is unacceptable. Exactly. You don't even dedicate to the healing tree and still mathematically dominate dps. And that's NOT counting your overheals and unused bubbles which you spent resources on and weren't even counted.

My experience on my Operative is much the same. The fact that the Kolto Probes, medpacs, whatever proc more free instant heals (which itself refunds its own cost on low health targets) is pretty ridiculous. The Probes are such a long duration and so cheap that if you played Whack-A-Mole with the buff durations, you could literally keep the entire team under endless HOTs for effectively free. It is completely faceroll easy. It's not very fun or rewarding imo at all. Players have their own preferences. I hate playing healers in PVP, I'm fine with tank specs (love tank vanguard and assassin), and usually dps spec the other clases. People confuse "being useful" with "well I'm a healer so I shouldn't lose to some scrub dps". Sorry but you should. You're a TEAM support role, not a tank. If you want to be near-unkillable 1on1 with a dps, then play a tank spec, that's what TANKS should be doing. A lot of healers want to be solo kings while also being exponentially stronger in a team setting... that's not how things should go. The more team oriented your spec and class are, the worse you should be in smaller (or solo) engagements. A tank is awesome solo or in a duo, they lose a lot of value the more players get added... they can only guard 1 player at a time, only taunt 1 enemy at a time (on a short cooldown) and don't do the full damage of a dps. A healer excels the larger an engagement gets, this is their role, and this is their value. If you want that small-scale individualistic gratification, don't play a team support role. Plain and simple. You are misreading the data by a LOT. The Empire team died more without healers, so they did less damage, you do less damage when you die. The Republic team died a LOT less because of his completely overpowered healing which, mind you, is UNDERSTATED in that chart (his overheals aren't being counted). Longer-lived players have an easier time doing more damage. I'd also be willing to bet the JK with high damage is Smash inflated and that the Smuggler was spamming Shrap Bombs. In addition to not dying thanks to overpowered healing, their damage is overstated by a lot of AOE inflation. Your interpretation is what the ignorant usually see, and mistake for a "skill" differential. They see 1 team "sucked" and the other team did not, without understanding that the difference in deaths is because of the healer... who mathematically stomped everyone else's output in that game. There may or may not have been a skill difference at play, we'll never know. What IS visible is that the healer mathematically destroyed everyone else in output, with 2 likely AOE inflated specs being the only players even close... even then, they don't match up WITH the inflation, and that's not counting his overheals. His true effective output in that match could be over 1 million, while those 2 high dps only effectively did 300-400k. This is the kind of misconception that reinforces this horribly imbalanced situation.

Indeed it is a statement of ignorance, one born in the completely stupid notion that a healer should be able to stand there 1on1 and take it indefinitely. The raw output issue is a major concern but, more guilty, is the strength of various instant heals, especially on Operative/Scoundrel. This is why there is very little, if any, complaining that Merc/Commando healing is overpowered. They hardcast or they don't heal. If left unchecked, they are competitive and can at least keep up with the output of a good dps (probably exceed it narrowly). Their Kolto Missile is awesome when it can land on 2 or more players and is instant, but it is very narrowly positional (half the radius of the top talent Op/Sco one), so you don't feel the sheer imbalance like you do with other specs. Healing does need an output nerf in PVP, but how major that nerf needs to be is conditional. The more important fix is to force more hard casts into Operative/Scoundrel especially. 1.5sec cast on Kolto Probe would be the best solution. If you want to heal, you should have to stop and heal, not heal your entire team and yourself endlessly with basically no resource cost. (At least Force Bubble costs resources faster than said resource is regained and so cannot be maintained on several players nigh-indefinitely.) The max dps in PVE of fully geared characters is barely over 2k. Add in Expertise reductions, 10% elemental/internal resistance buff, LOS issues, stuns, slows, etc... I'd be impressed if you could maintain anywhere NEAR max dps in PVP. Some specs can burst for a lot more, but the sustained drops it a lot. Good luck on a ranged hunting down a healer constantly ducking behind Voidstar pylons, ACW turrets, Huttball walls, for example, especially if said ranged class is heavily dependent on hardcast abilities. Even melee has trouble on a moving target constantly LOSing around a terrain object. Did I mention Guard/Taunts exist? Because remember the fact that you're not doing anywhere near 2k dps sustained in PVP... cut that in half, or lower. When you drop to ~800 dps and their HOTs heal ~3x that amount every 3 seconds... oh, imagine that, it's mathematically impossible to win. (These are really just example numbers. His was an example, mine's an example. His example number combined with browsing pve forums for spec information does help give some bonus perspective though.) It is remarks like this that reflect the ignorance of the fact that healing output is pretty much insane compared to dps output. A freecasting healer should be putting out substantial output, not unbeatable output. And a focused healer should be a dead healer, within a reasonable timeframe. Like you said, defensive cooldowns, guards, taunts, position and LOS issues, etc. Welcome to MMO PVP. Healers always want more buffs for themselves and feel like no one should ever die because they're "skilled" and their "skill" means they're beating those "noob dps". These healers are often on premade teams who believe they are winning with "skill" rather than relying on overpowered healers and, just as often, whatever flavor of the month specs are overpowered as well. People saying premades should get removed are silly. Server pops are low enough that even without queuing together, it would be easy for several people to queue at the same time and mostly end up together. Further, premades themselves aren't a problem, and you should be able to play with friends. The problem is premades exploiting healer imbalance for consistent wins that have absolutely zero to deal with personal skill, and come entirely from overpowered healing mixed with higher gear. If you won all the time and delusionally attributed it to your own "skill", I'm sure you'd claim healing is fine and pvp is well balanced too. Player Egos do that.

Overheals DON'T get counted (which is why AFKing Sage/Sorcs had to spam their life tap to inflate the meter for medals). Healers are STILL consistently ahead on the scoreboard despite this fact. Pretty much. In the case of Sage/Sorcs, they can even burn through their force bar and just die to respawn back at full. A small penalty to your time being alive is a small price to pay for entirely avoiding resource management. It's been so long the patches bleed together, I picked a random one from the approximate period when healers started to really pick up in OPness. It was never really hard to get high healing numbers even early on, but it sure felt like healers themselves were a lot more capable OF being controlled and focused down with good gameplay. Whereas now... good luck pinning down anything but a Merc/Commando. My idea of balance is that an unfocused healer SHOULD outperform DPS, you should have to play at least a little bit strategically. It should not be by a huge margin though. My idea of balance is also that a healer with someone relentlessly bashing on them, properly using interrupts etc, SHOULD be able to kill a healer within a reasonable timeframe. The problem is that healers (at the very least not Merc/Commandos) outperform DPS even while being focused, and it only scales up from there, with so many mobility and escapes that it becomes impossible for ranged dps to even fight them and a challenge for melee to even keep up. Then you entirely misread what I've been posting and your ignorance encourages you to put up that typical troll response of "you suck, focus better". Healers, at the very least certain healers, don't suffer much (or even at all for Smug/Op) even when focused, making that argument entirely stupid. That argument implies an environment where you CAN interrupt their heals and where they will DIE if chain-CCed... that environment doesn't exist in a world of spammable HOTs and bubbles, where the resolve meter fills long before the target even hits half health. That USED TO happen in a group context, perhaps the change is simply one of gear scaling. The problem is that it doesn't often happen anymore (except in very niche cases where a healer just sits there and takes it, with no assistance, while a Sniper or Marauder opens up their full rotation on them, and makes no effort to escape). The capitalization and maturity level reflects the quality of the commentary therein. This was so trollishly bad I had to have a chuckle at it. It is, in fact, quite ironic in that I'm sure most of my opponents when 1v1s occur feel the same way, regardless of my class. This IS connected to the whining about premades actually, in that premades get carried on the back of overpowered heals. Even that one poster with her little bullet points and long posts... dodged the fact that premades are almost always heavily stacking healers or hybrid-healers, definitely in a much higher quantity than the 1/4 ratio they exist at in PVE. If you consider the typical PVE group distribution as the intended rough distribution for groups in all content, a 4-man premade should have a maximum of 1 dedicated healer. How often does THAT happen in premades? LOL

The usual troll response. Even if the followup is well-written, it's factually wrong. Raw numbers don't lie. Healing output consistently beats Damage output by LARGE MARGINS, even when healing us understated and damage is overstated, meaning the actual margin is even larger. I don't know how someone can legitimately sit here and post otherwise. The problem with interrupting Innervate is that it is going to get 1 or more ticks off, the longer the channel goes before the interrupt lands (especially with latency). Dark Infusion is plenty efficient and large of a cast. And you can do nothing about their bubble or HOT, both of which are cost efficient AND instant cast. They can also pretty easily Force Slow you and run, or Whirlwind + Electrocute to create a gap... and you cannot CC break BOTH, which they can cast twice as often as your CC break to boot. I'm going to generally agree that Commando/Merc seems reasonable. They have enough hard-cast abilities that players are reasonably able to combat them with coordination and good decision making. They're very durable, but they're nowhere near as egregious as Sorcs and Operatives. Translation: You cannot fight them effectively, period. Even someone who so adamantly refuses to acknowledge the mathematically overpoweredness of heals.... has no choice in a fairly reasonable analysis but to say you can't do jack to lock down an Operative or Scoundrel. They can just keep kiting you while Kolto Probing up their entire team and Surgical Probing like mad off the Tactical Advantage procs. You can ONLY hinder their max-level talent, which is completely ridiculous. Humorously, for starting off bad, I find your post fairly reasonable even if I disagree entirely with your conclusion... even you have a hard time justifying the current status of Operative/Scoundrel, especially the simple fact that they need so few hard casts.

How bout no? Scoreboards say what needs to be said, mostly, except for excluding overhealing and including aoe inflated dps. Even WITH those factors, healing is consistently higher across the board than dps. The only time damage numbers gets in range to rival is with a lot of aoe inflation from long-*** battles with high healing on both sides. Even then, the best damage rarely can even touch the higher healers. I notice how you conveniently tried to focus on something as a distraction rather than my calling you out on that crap about group comps. Because, really, how often would 8 people together in a serious premade only have 2 healers or heavily-healing hybrids? You dodged that and tried to make some unreasonably complex (and absurd) demand as a distraction. If screencapping wasn't broken for me for this and WOW, I'd gladly just screencap every PVP match I had for the next 2 months at low and high levels alike and show what we already know: healing FAR outstrips damage in PVP. I'd even take special care to note when I encountered a premade and highlight the guilded players to demonstrate that said premade is carrying itself with overpowered healing as a crutch. Even if I could, it's pointless for me to do so, you would argue it doesn't matter for some inane reason. Furthermore, it's additionally pointless since it is common knowledge among anyone who PVPs in this game.

Their playing badly doesn't mean balance. They're clearly not effectively using taunts, immoblizes, CC, etc to stop you from double-teaming someone, and they may not even be paying attention to the fact that you are doing so. You only get 1 CC break. I've killed plenty of healers on plenty of classes, someone playing badly or getting ganked is NOT an example of mathematical balance. On my Sentinel I constantly run around butchering people 1v2, the fact that they play badly doesn't mean this is an example of Sentinel being the most powerful class ever. Too many people see emprical data of players playing badly and assume it means things are a-okay. Facts are facts, healing output FAR outstrips damage output by an unreasonable margin. Again, examples of someone else playing badly doesn't mean healing is balanced when it mathematically is not.

Typical troll bait responses. "You suck!" "Learn to play!" Sorry pals, objective data is worth more than your silly little trolling taunts.

1. It mathematically objectively is. 2. Stacking a disproportinate amount of healers and hybrid healers. 3. Because it is intended that HALF or MORE of a team is healing or off-healing. That is not lop-sided at all if you consider the game is generally designed from the perspective that 1/4 of the players in a group are healing, not half or more. 4. Mathematically untrue. Healing specs outperform DPS by huge margins EXCEPT in cases of AOE inflation, with healing numbers being understated and damage numbers overstated. Not only does healing outstrip damage, the margin is much larger than the objective scoreboards will reflect. This is the typical "I don't care about facts! Healing is balanced because I say so, even when objective mathematical data shows otherwise! You suck at DPS! You're bad! I'm not overpowered! Learn to play!". Really now, I'm not sure who believes it other than those seeking to reinforce their own falsehoods. You are literally objectively mathematically wrong. I have played healing and more often healing hybrid specs multiple times. I run away with Kolto Probes up, I don't die, period. The ONLY way I die is literally if my entire team is already dead AND I'm alone AND I'm trapped. It is completely insanely overpowered that I can do that. The problem is, I don't WANT to do that, I want the freedom to actually play specs and be competitive... not be forced to heal because it's overpowered. I can 1v1 against almost any spec in the game 95% of the time, while playing any class myself. Healers, DPS, Tanks, doesn't matter. Does that mean every class is perfectly balanced, or that it's just easy to find bad players who wandered off alone?