I've played all the classes, and tinkered with most of the builds. All i can really say is this: "Scoundrel>Scrapper is probably the most awesome game play in an MMO I've ever experienced." <---- no BS. It won't "feel" very fluid until maybe about lvl 33-ish or so. And even then, I think it isn't until you hit lvl 40 that you understand what the build is supposed to do exactly. But once you hit it.... you'll never play a smoother class. It just flows together like water and ice. Out of all the companions you have access to, as a Scrapper, you'll get the most out of either Risha, Guss, or Akavi. Risha is good when you want to do a lot of focus DPS, and is a god-send when you get her. Corso and Bowdarr are cool and all... but they aren't really useful to a Scrapper at low levels. Guss is great when you are grouped with someone, or just in general because he's such a great character (he's the best Companion in the game as far as I'm concerned.) Akavi will change your entire world. I don't want to spoil it, but I nearly passed out the first time I used her. She destroys everything in your path. Use her for large groups of trash mobs, and just kill, kill, kill. Later on, you will have minimal downtime with her. Story-wise... ehhh... let me just say this - there are some really great high-points. I mean really great. The best parts are in Act 2, though I think. I have trouble remembering exactly, but Act 3 was a little disappointing, and the ending was... it was just lame. That's all there is to it. But the journey to it was awesome! PvP..... ehhhh... news is Scrappers are good in 2.0. We shall see. Generally speaking, it is unwise to do a purely Scrapper PvP build -at least I don't recommend it. They just don't perform. Your best bet is to make a Sawbones/Scrapper hybrid. Stack all the Crit Rating and Surge you can get your hands on - Crit Damage is your bread and butter. Don't waste any Talents or Gear Mods on Alacrity - it's a useless stat for Scrappers. But, like I always say - "When it comes to armor.... you're a Scoundrel. Always go for form over function." Basically, how well you do something is not nearly as important as how good you look while you're doing it

Well, this seems to allow a boost for sustained damage at least. That's something that should have happened a long time ago, though, honestly. Still, I'm not sure how it will matter. Part of the reason why providing us with better sustained damage was pointless was because we have no defenses. We're way too squishy - we might just be the squishiest builds in the entire game, now that I think about it. It doesn't matter if our sustained damage is better, if we can't stay alive long enough to use it anyway. I guess I'll just have to check it out for myself. Maybe it isn't as pointless as it seems on paper.

So, I have a question. This thing is 17 pages long, so if this question has been asked... I'm sorry. Anyway, I *think* I have a handle on how this Bolster/Expertise stuff is going to work. Basically, everyone gets bolstered to some goal and are considered equal. But with PvP gear, it adds Expertise, which reduces the amount of bolster, and allows the gear stats to take over... which leads to better performance? Correct me if I am wrong here, and fill in missing details for me. Assuming that is correct - is there any reason to even have a 50's bracket anymore? I mean, to be honest with you... I understand why it had to be created in the first place. Back in the day... it was needed, badly. But now with how Expertise works, I don't see how it needs to exist anymore. Would it not be possible to put all lvls back into the WZ's again like it was originally intended? This should fix the queing issues, and open the game up to a lot more potentially exciting outcomes.

We can only hope. Look, I'm not against a complete overhaul of the class. I don't even care if it's totally different. I just want some options, ya know? Hopefully, whatever they are doing, it is really good. I just want to put this to rest and move on.

Also, one last thing. The reason why they won't fix this class is because not enough people are letting their voice be heard. It's clear that the Devs listen to the player base when they cry enough. It's the very reason that borked the class in the first place. Unfortunately, this class's player base is not crying loud enough. Mostly because no one plays it. And the reason no one plays it.... is because it sucks at everything... but healing. Now, what was the last game you played when people were just dying to play a healer because it was so awesome? I rest my case.

So, I preordered the CE of this game way back when, and loved it. I played a Scrapper in Closed and Open Beta, and I played a Scrapper in Live. My career in this game ended about 2 months after Live, when I realized the Live Dev Team for this game were completely incompetent, evidenced by how the very first round of "balancing" was managed. I am referring to 1.1. Basically, this was the nerf that killed Scoundrel, and it only took them about 1 month to do it... not even, really. Now, before anyone claims I quit because my class is nerfed... hear me out. I remember I wrote this very lengthy article about why the nerf to Scoundrel was completely unnecessary, and what the actual problems with the class were. I wrote this during the 2 weeks this patch was being tested on the Test Server. It was my last ditch effort to talk some sense into this community, and the devs. It was futile. In short, there was nothing ever wrong with the class in the first place. Technically, there weren't any real problems with ANY of the classes. All the classes were designed to near perfection and played perfectly in PVE and PVP... until you hit 50 and started to get your hands on Expertise Gear and Rakata Stims <--- which was what was screwing up the game. Essentially, my post went into great detail about how Surge was breaking the balance, and that it was being exploited by how the modifiers to Expertise and Stims were creating situations that "were not intended." Technically speaking, these things weren't even "broken" either. The problem was not that these things made unintended situations - the problem was that you had too much differential between people who had Battlemaster Gear and people who did not. They first tried to correct this by making a lvl 50 only league of PvP matches. All this proved was that pre-50... the classes were awesome and balanced because no one could exploit Surge. This means nothing was wrong with the design of any of the classes. Then I explained that the real problem with the balance in the game was Surge and Critical Damage. Basically.... there was way too much of it. It was so O.P., classes and builds that weren't even designed to use it, were stacking it because it was THAT O.P. So, after they nerfed Scoundrel, even against 2 threads I made with 50 pages worth of warnings in both.... they went ahead and nerfed Surge... and Rikata stims... and we all know the several iterations PvP/Expertise gear has gone through. Except they did not undo the damage they did to Scoundrel. Nerfing Surge AFTER they nerfed the class was basically what killed destroyed this class in every function besides healing. They had to redesign some of the healing abilities to make it so, though. Immediately after this Surge nerf, the situation arose that no one could kill healers. Essentially healers could nearly tank an entire enemy squad in PvP. If you were around back then... you know exactly what I am talking about. I actually spoke about this in my thread as well, because it was our job to kill these Healers. Our one-trick pony Burst Damage build was the only thing that could do enough damage to them before they could heal themselves. We were built for burst damage against non-shielded opponents, preferably those who did not wear heavy armor. This meant - Sorcs were our number one target. But guess which class was the most popular at release? Sorcs... and they cried and cried. Oh, did they cry! They cried so hard, they managed to kill an entire class off within one month of Live. Not because they sucked. Not because our class was OP. Not because we were superior gamers. Not because of any reason, except that our class was specifically designed to utterly destroy them. It had nothing to do with our tactics, or how good or bad anyone played. Our class was supposed to kill them. Plain and simple. The whole Surge incident was just icing on the cake. And then... we were not allowed to do that any more. And then, we realized the reality of our class. 2 of our trees are pointless to go all the way into. We really had no option except to be at the very least, a hybrid healer. Now... that was then. I have recently resubbed... because... well... I like this game. And now things are a little different, I suppose. Some parts of the class work a little different, and it's fun. But I'm still convinced that not having some healing abilities is pointless, both in PvP and PvE. My point to all of this is that I see a lot of people talking about "bad players" and whatnot, and how "good they are, despite the obvious imbalance." All I say is this... all you're doing is excusing the fact that the class is broken. They broke it in the first month of Live, and they will never fix it. You might have some luck with it, or maybe you just found your niche in a group you often run with. But whatever the case.... the class is still broken. And it is a waste of time to hope they will ever change it to be anything more than "the best healer". The problem I am having with this game right now is that even the other healing classes.... they might not be the "best" healer... but they still do their job, quite respectively. No one "needs" a Scoundrel healer to the point that any other class build won't suffice. The difference is... those other classes have options to do something besides healing, and they can do those activities really well too. We don't have that option. Our other "roles" will pretty much guarantee that half the group would rather have some other class and player to take your spot. That is not good design. And that is what is wrong with our class. Stop hiding this truth behind your ego. No one cares how good you are and how bad everyone else is in comparison. What they care about is a balanced game. Stop being part of the problem.

Well, ideally speaking, the 50 No Expertise PvP WZ's would just be added into the 10-49 WZ's. As for Open PvP - this is going to be the kicker that separates the Die Hard PvP, willing to grind out the War Hero from the Casuals (like me.) Expertise still applies in World PvP, don't you know? Assuming they ever figure World PvP out... I sincerely don't think any casual PvP player under these rules have a right to complain about being owned against someone who grinded through the War Hero. And I would be the first person to tell them to quiet down. I really don't see how this is NOT a good idea. Add 50 No Expertise WZ onto the 10-49. If people wish to participate in the advanced 50 only Expertise PvP... let them. Even the best PvE Gear in the world isn't going to stand up against a War Hero set, because of Expertise alone. The PvP Elite still have the upper hand here, as they should, since they grinded out the Gear necessary to be the best at PvP.

Lol... well, I didn't write that exactly the way I meant it, I guess. I was in school, and I stopped playing the game for obvious reasons. But on the weekends and stuff, when I had time... I wouldn't even play.

Dude... understand me, please. I've said this like three times already. I do not want to take out Gear Progression. I understand that it is a goal that people want and in some capacity need to partake in. There are other people, however, who do not have that objective, and they are forced into it if they want to PvP. Meanwhile, all they are doing is not having fun, because all they do is die. It has taken me quite a long time to get a full set of PvP gear. I am going on 2 months, now, and I am still missing 4 peices of my BM Set. Why? Because I consistently go out of my way to avoid PvP, because it is not fun to be gang-*****. Do I like PvP? Yes. I do. But I am simply not going to go through that. Not because it takes forever, but out of principle. I do not like wasting time on something in the game that I know I will not succeed at. All I want is the option. I do not want to take Expertise Gear Progression out of the game. I simply want an option to play a casual PvP match with my lvl 50, without worrying about Expertise. I am not worried that "I will lose worse against players in PvE gear." The reason I am not worried about that is because I have the option to do something I CAN succeed at and have fun with to obtain that gear. As it stands, I will not support a PvP system that allows players to "fail upward." It doesn't make any sense to me, and it isn't fun to not earn the gear through a success. I don't even like the fact that you're awarded commendations, just for playing. That's like getting a blue ribbon for being present at 3rd Grade Field Day.

HA! That's funny... so do Scoundrels and Ops. Wait wait... we only have one defensive on a 2 min CD that lasts for 3 seconds, and a vanish that doesn't work. Plus, they gimped our DPS to hell and back. You guys are very privileged and you don't even know it. "Hard to play..." pff - whatever. This whole rant about Maras sounds like everyone ranting about Scoundrels/Ops back in January. Except, we really only had 1 class that was doing the complaining, whereas Maras have ALL classes complaining. You guys are getting nerfed - I promise you. Deal with it. That's what everyone told me to do.

I understand where our communication failure lies now. You think I am a PvE carebear. No. I am a student in college who does not like to log into an MMO I am trying very hard to enjoy, just to find out there is nothing I can do to actually have fun until I unlock certain features. The difference between your PvE progression and PvP progression is that the PvP progression doesn't scale the way the PvE progression scales. I don't HAVE to do Nightmare Raids. I don't HAVE to set that objective for myself. And in fact - I don't. I don't want to grind for the gear. it is not a huge priority for me. Fortunately, the game gives me another option to play the same content on an easier difficulty. It's fun for me to do that. PvP does not offer me something besides "Nightmare mode." It puts me in "Nightmare PvP mode" whether I want to or not, and doesn't even give me a chance to gear up for it first. It's stupid. The whole thing is stupid. My objective and enjoyment in this game IS NOT YOURS. Stop talking to everyone like they are a child, simply because they have a perfectly reasonable request to PLAY DIFFERENT CONTENT!

The thing about it is, though, that Bioware already had a system in place to correct the lvl/gear imbalances. In WZ's, players were buffed up to lvl 50. The only difference in anyone is how many abilities they have unlocked. That's really what boggles my mind about all of this. That issue was already addressed. Why create a PvP stat on top of it? I haven't understood it since day 1.

If they were just going to match you up against people who were equally geared/experienced - what would be the point of gear progression? Just to move you into a new, potentially smaller bracket? Did it not occur to anyone that without Expertise and PvP Gear... we wouldn't even need Brackets? Except maybe for Ranked Games. People like that sort of thing. Some people don't. I don't see why we need any other separation between players than that.

Oh, then you're aware of how crappy the Expertise system is? Good. Glad we agree on that. Your problem is you want to address symptoms. I'm talking about a cure to the source of the problem. You should be on board. A lot of smart people are agreeing with me. Well, let's see. They farmed valor on Ilum (which was a total catastrophe) so they could equip Battlemaster Gear. They needed that because of - Expertise. Most people thought Ilum was a total waste of time, and was boring. They thought this because it WAS boring. Yet it was the quickest way to get Valor, which they needed so they could equip BM gear, which they wanted because of - Expertise. They also hated the ridiculous Commendations system where you would grind your butt off against players who were already in BM gear (which meant you died 9 times out of 10.) They wanted these Commendations so they could buy Equipment Bags. These equipment bags had gear. That gear had more - Expertise. Even if Ilum didn't suck; even if it were the coolest game experience ever - it would still suck because players would be dying constantly to people who had more - Expertise. This is a lot like my experience now, as well as many many other players' experience. We are not having fun because of - Expertise. I understand how it works, now. I am not asking anyone to change it. Did you even read what I have been writing this whole time? I didn't "just come back." I am not fighting in Centurion/Champion gear. You assumed a lot in the few words that I wrote on that matter. The point is, while I am grinding out WH... I am constantly up against people who - simply put - I cannot kill. It's not going to happen. I don't know what it is like on YOUR server, but on MY server, which is the most populated server in the game, running into people with full on War Hero is a common thing. My problem with this crap isn't in how long it takes to endure through the BS to get War Hero. That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that any amount of time going through that crap is too long. I don't care how long it takes you to go through it. Crap is crap, and the fact that we simply ignore it is part of the reason it is crap. Stop defending crap. Like I said - on my server, it's pretty common to come up against people in full WH. And yes, I AM playing with people with similar gear to myself. Unfortunately, they're in the same boat I am in. One WH player can easily keep 2 or 3 BM players busy. AH! You really need to read better. I didn't compare 10-49 with end game PvP except for the fact that I mentioned it was much better. You're right - no one IS min-maxing lowbies.... and yet PvP is much more fun for them. The only people having fun in 50 PvP are people who have the best gear. I congratulate you on your efforts to obtain it. I am not trying to take it away from you. All I want is a way to enjoy the best PvP experience in the game again, without having to turn over a new toon every other week. I am not whining. I am simply asking a question *points to thread title*. Your responses are not satisfyingly correct. Thanks for playing.

You simply do not understand. People need a serious reality check of how gear was actually obtained in this game, and how that curve was actually created in the first place. The power-gamers within the first few weeks of release had already acquired Battlemaster gear. This was before brackets were even introduced. There were a lot of players that did absolutely nothing but play PvP in this game, because you could level from 1-50 in a matter of days doing it. There were people on my server who were already level 50 by the time I was able to log in on the third day of Early Release. Even at that time, these power gamers were able to completely dominate in PvP medals when the big influx of players arrived on day 1. Even with the balanced nature of the classes back then without the gear (and they were a lot more balanced than they are now, mind you) being 40 levels higher than everyone else gave you more than enough advantage to just rack up the medals. Farming for Battlemaster Gear for them was ridiculously easy. Add to that the fact that they had Guild-mates helping each other.... the whole system was screwed up within the very first month of release. The curve existed from day 1, and it was a STEEP curve. As time went on, the curve only got worse, because as those people started to get their full sets of BM, they were able to put an almost immediate stop on anyone else obtaining them - which meant so many people who were still working on their Centurion and Champion sets, suddenly had a major decrease in medals earned. This is exactly how the Gear Gap and the curve was created. That's it. It's that simple. Add on top of this the Trinkets and Biochem Stims.... Don't get me started... Then Bioware started changing crap around when they made a 50's only bracket, and later started nerfing everything under the sun - "Because it couldn't possibly be the Expertise, right?" The only reason they made that bracket was because of the ridiculous gear differential. There is virtually zero difference between a lvl 49 and a lvl 50, just as there is virtually zero difference between a 48 and a 49. The level differential had absolutely nothing to do with making a new bracket. And everyone here knows it. If a fresh level 50 with Battlemaster gear (which at the time was the best PvP gear you could get) could single handedly wipe the floor with nearly an entire team of 50's with NO gear... there is absolutely zero chance - ZERO CHANCE - of any level less than 50 doing so. It isn't even a matter of statistical probability. Levels had nothing to do with it. It was the Expertise that caused the problem. Today... we have a system that allows you to acquire WH gear a lot easier than you used to be able to acquire Battlemaster Gear. This is true. Did you ever stop to wonder why that is? It's because the Expertise Gap was beyond stupid. There is virtually nothing anyone can say that can refute that fact. it was made easier because only one month into the game, the time it would take people to invest in order to beat the Gear curve meant months - not days or weeks. Typically, this wouldn't be a bad thing considering it is an MMO. The problem is that it is months of constant losing to impossible differentials. I know - I suffered through it as best as I could. I got to about halfway through my Champion set before I finally gave up and quit the game. I didn't quit the game because I had to grind for gear. I quit the game because I was constantly losing (and yes, I was in a guild at the time) and there was nothing I or anyone else could do about it. Keep in mind, I was a Scrapper, and this was during and right after 1.1. But I won't even get into that.... Recently, I come back and I find that my half Champion half Centurion PvP gear is only slightly better than Recruit gear. So I am basically starting off at square 1. And though it is easier to acquire new gear (until you start to unlock War Hero) it does not address the Expertise Gap in the slightest. A player in BM gear today still does not stand a chance to a War Hero. And I simply do not understand why this needs to exist. I never have. Here is what I do understand. Do you know why no one really complains much in the 10-49 bracket about how unfair it is for a lvl 10 to face off against a lvl 49? It's because they have an avenue to progress in that does not require them to constantly die against impossible odds. They don't have to sit there and grind out 39 levels in PvP. They can go do something else... like story stuff. Then they can come back in 5 or 10 levels and notice, "Hey, i don't suck nearly as much now that I have some extra abilities! This is pretty fun!" With the current 50's bracket... you don't have that option. You are stuck with PvP. And when you PvP... you are dying... constantly... no matter how well you play - until you get War Hero. And that is not fun, unless you are the person doing the killing. That right there is the best way to ensure new players will not stick with your game, and that is the major reason why most of the PvPers left in the first place. People didn't leave because of Ilum. People didn't leave because there were only 3 WZ maps. People left because the Expertise was jacked and screwed everything up. And those who WERE complaining about Ilum, only did so because they were the ones who were ahead of the curve at launch! And they were bored with the WZ PvP... because there was no competition... because of the Expertise gap! So suppose there was a 10-50 bracket that existed without Expertise. You claim people wouldn't play that and would quit because the Rakata and Tionese gear would just replace the Expertise? NO! The reason that WOULD work, is because there is a viable option to get a higher level and better gear, that doesn't include DYING all the time, just like that option exists in the 10-49 bracket right now. If people want to compete in Ranked WZ's, and they want that added level of competition - then the War Hero grind is still available, and they can still do what they do right now. Even better, you can make that grind as difficult as you want for all I care. You can call it the Spec Ops Division for Lore purposes - again, I don't care. I don't want to be that competitive with this game, and I don't want the frustration involved without having a secondary avenue for progression. I understand people that do. And more power to them. I am just not that guy. I am too old to care about who has the biggest e-peen. Now as far as why people would even want to play in a 10-50's bracket if there is "no reason" to do so.... I don't get it... it's like you guys have no imagination. If someone doesn't sit down and explain to you what a book is for... you wouldn't figure it out. They would play... because it's fun. They would play just for the sport of it. They would play because it doesn't stress them out. I swear - I do not understand people who only see competition, frustration, and work as a viable means to practice your downtime.