No reason to OP/Scoundrel in PvP either

I'm a moron for pointing out the obvious? Why let BioWare slide on ****** class balance year after year?

Point was that what you wrote we agreed on. I guess I should have phrased it as NOT ONLY are they easier to play, they are objectively better at their roll in 4v4 arenas. Tl;dr sorcs are overpowered.

Reading comprehension...

I really don't understand the argument here. Hottie is running with double carb setup which has been meta and OP for ages now. There is no circumstance in arena even with that setup where you would WANT to take the op healer over the sorc healer. You are simply gimping your team. Can OP healer work at a high level (with an already OP double carb lineup?) sure. Would you ever take an op over a sorc to heal in the same lineup? god no. Op DPS is even worse off in the trash tier. Granted 99% of harb is trash at pvp anyway, but still.

They are not just easier to play, they are objectively better at their roll in 4v4 arenas. guide is appreciated, but BioWare needs to inject some love into PvP balance, unless people are satisfied with double carb+sorc making up almost all of the top 200 players again next season.

OP Healer runs with double carbonize in arenas and he wins all the time except against double carbonize + sorc? LOL. No s*it . Sorc > Op @ heals. Everything (but merc) > Op @ DPS. Why people even try to argue this point for PvP is beyond me. I don't mind the "hey I'm an Op and I'm doing okay" threads, but people trying to say Ops are balanced with other classes right now at any roll is laughable.

What the f is the point of this class now? Sorcs are indisputably better healers in PvP, and almost every other class is better at DPS.

A fully geared BiS PvP geared Concealment OP CANNOT hit for 19k. It is mathematically impossible, unless your opponent is lacking expertise.

Actually, the issue is pure mathematics and objective comparison. You can't just say the class lacks burst and sustain damage, and then follow up with "but yeah you can roll and sap so class is fine." Can a good player beat a dumpster as a dps OP? SURE! They can do it as a merc too. Beating the keyboard turning autists in SWTOR does not mean the class is not **** when compared to the others.

Lol always tickles me when people try to find new justifications every successive patch for why operative is not trash tier, despite consistent nerfs and regularly being outperformed in ranked wz's by almost every other class. I'll check again next big patch in however many years that is to see if BioWare decides to stop punishing operatives for once.

Those rankings are based on the fabled Operative of legend that two shots everyone and also heals the entire team at the same time. Operatives are trash and gutted even further this patch.

I was aware of this when I posted yes. We're actually worse than those numbers would indicate in PvE since those numbers were taken from stationary dummies, and concealment ops need to be in melee behind the target to do damage. ****** PvE DPS and Mediocre (at best) PvP DPS. At least our heal spec is average, but still less favored than sorcs.

They are pretty much identical to last patch but put out less damage. How is that great? Sure, we can kite like no other class in the game, and have tons of utility, but in 4's why would a concealment op be better than a sin, ptech, madness sorc, etc? If I had to 1v1 I'd probably take the operative still against anyone else, but since ranked warzones are 4v4 I don't see that is much of an advantage.

Assuming 1v1 combat, you would ideally flash when enemy is not dotted, and if they use their trinket I call that a win. Can stealth and sleep or use normal stun etc and heal up. Lot's of options. Energy is no problem, you have adrenaline probe. Not sure why you don't miss kolto injection whatsoever, but to each their own. I played from 2011-late 2012, when hidden blade and knockdown were things, and operatives were excellent. Before this patch things seemed okay actually. This 4.0 patch on the other hand seems like it's gutted the spec and made useless compared to others. Correct me if I'm wrong though hopefully.