Being a former Multiboxer and probably will get back into it someday. I can say there would be nothing stopping me from running more than 4 on SWToR if I was to go about it and had the money (too busy building new desktop paying mortgage and integratin DLNA + Gigabit + HDMI throughout house in diff forms like wall sockets etc) then I would have 4 sub accounts and as many extra F2P ontop that the system could hold (used to run 5 by memory on old pc and would change that to 4 and 4 across 2 pcs if borrowing friends toons). Still new to SWToR and like it enough just for storyline only 1 toon bout to hit max lvl this week and not bored of it, that I would guess 4 sub or pref or F2P I guess that I am really interested in I could use then any extra would def be F2P and used outside Group for heals etc... just guessing but either way Swtor doesnt have the Multibox appeal to it I dont think. A much more limited access to the game mechanics player side would end up make me feel I am just dragging round alts... I Boxed for fun in wow... I had multi max lvl toons had bunch of r/l mates with multi max toons. So I would not Box a raid cos I was progressing with a guild and had no need to box with the amt of friends a call or 5sec walk away. I just enjoyed setting up complex scripting macros ie like of baldurs gate slightly so I could play round on alts etc or attempt the tier or two below raids.

sorry yeah it should but this was more of a general MMO question... was after ppls thoughts not just SWTOR. I am not liking this scaling down of raid size with ea new MMO. Why cant they have big Epic raids for communities large enough and active enough that can cooperate like a small raid force. An MMO that will draw me in would be something like: Group Size of 5 players. Progression Raids(PR) with variants for 10/20/40/80 players. Open World Raids(OWR) with Variants for 40/80/120 players. Multiple Difficulty Levels - (S)Standard / (H)Heroic / (E)Epic / (L)Legendary / (I)Immortal That would allow greater options for players of different minds and all with nothing more than small changes to the raids depending on size and difficulty to balance it out: 10 player Heroic raid NPC's have more HP and hit harder/Mitigate more than Standard 10 20 player standard could be like 10 Heroic for stats etc with a few added scripts/abilities during events Raid Reward Scales: Tier 1.1 Raid Gear PR10S ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.2 Raid Gear PR10H PR20S ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.3 Raid Gear PR10E PR20H PR40S -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.4 Raid Gear PR10L PR20E PR40H PR80S --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.5 Raid Gear PR10I PR20L PR40E PR80H --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.6 Raid Gear PR20I PR40L PR80E --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.7 Raid Gear PR40I PR80L OWR40 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.8 Raid Gear PR80I OWR80 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tier 1.9 Raid Gear OWR120

Could ppl pls leave reply on their thoughts for end game raid size and scale, or click link and vote on the poll? ie: do you want to have one raid size for all or two sizes - one designed for smaller community one for larger, etc? How many ppl do you feel make up your hopeful end game raids for communities of those size(s)? *PLEASE IGNORE THE FACT THAT THE SIZES DONT RELATE TO SWTOR MULTIPLES OF 4* This was a general MMO poll I wanted players opinions as ea MMO is cutting the size of raids and they tell us as players that what we want.... hmmmm not me or my friends that have raided for years. RAID SIZE POLL

1. SWTOR and others follow WoW model > WoW follow EQ Model 2. 72ppl RAIDS in EQ > 10/25ppl raids in wow > 8/16ppl raids in SWTOR (Wow originally had 40ppl Raids) 3. EQ had predominant open world raids introduced instances near end of Reign > WoW and SWTOR have both adopted and most content is instanced. 4. EQ Oldschool days so graphics werent the best. > WoW introduced a rainbow of colors to the players viewing pleasure. > SWToR went back to EQ style of Graphics (IE not cartoony like WoW) 5. EQ beginner learning curve originally > WoW adopted to be beginner friendly > SwToR adopted beginner friendly but adds in a storyline that feels immersive and imitates Single player RPG feel as you progress. All 3 are awesome and each have drawn from one before it but my thoughts are... I want my epic Raids back!!!! Games are cutting em down with philosophy that is easier to band together as small community than form big... Ummm they do realise the ratio of ppl getting the net as time goes on is trending to what you'd think was opposite... I could form a 72 person raid (filled with Aussies from my guild) back in end of 90's start 2000's how could it be harder now than back then... 9 of every 10 that didnt know how to use a pc back then are now slicing and dicing on online games etc. And other than that my only main negative for MMO's is they keep modelling after ea other but since wow they aint changing the feel enough to intice a viable playerbase. I keep testing and checking new MMO's and none can seem to even stand tall next to WoW. Only reason I like SWTOR is because its like the KOTOR I LOVE STARWARS and its got the best MMO storyline development of any MMO I played.

THIS IS A LONG POST HAVE PUT A FEW POINTS IN POST FOLLOWING IF DONT WANT TO READ MY DRIBBLE Came across this post and as a veteran in the world of MMO's (As early back as Sierra's "the realm, Ultima Online etc without bringing MUDs into it) I am bedazzled by this mentality devs have with the recent string of MMO's. My fav MMO was Everquest. When it was released it was something new it was huge it was EPIC and I mean EPIC. I play MMO's for end game content... have fun lvling but I want to have victories in Raids involving others etc and I find each new MMO released has lost more of that feeling. 72 player Raids both instanced(later expansions) and Open world (original content & expansions) that took you to work as a co-ordinated team was an awesome feeling when victory came. We wouldnt always win as we were growing the guild, and some nights you'd log off wanting to throw the pc cos 4hrs wasted and it may have even been down to something as simple as one of the 72 players agroing a boss by mistake that wipes the raid while they busy on another boss. (aye that sorta instance was rare and the most frustrating cos if we knew event and it was explained what to do etc the idiots shouldnt be in position to agro a boss.) But the next raid hitting up same chain of events/boss etc and winning all but erased 99% of the anger from the previous raid. 72 ppl going crazy over chat "OMG We *********** did it!!! Woot!!!" and progressing through the most expansive end game I've played (I left to play wow when it was released and EQ was upto 9-11 expansions or so) cant be described unless you've done it. I played WoW up till start of 2012 when desktop blew up and picked up SWToR recently along with checking wow panda exp out since got my new systems. I love all of em but even to this day After a few of the graphical ones I played which at the time was the bomb EQ came out and after hitting max lvl joining a fledgeling Aussie guild with like 15 members. I got few mates into it the guild kept snowballing and I slowly started overtaking the guild's main tank(friend of guildiees from another uber guild who started raiding with us more and more often) due to his guild affiliation entitling me to be prioritized on loot before him. Next thing my mates and myself are now basically runnning the raids(not the guild) I had become a geared MT, My friends had become MP(Guy who had ability to split mobs and other stuff to bring the mobs to the raid) and I had Healers and even my Mum was one of the most uber buffers we had =), the guild had grown in size and rep that we no longer had to figure out what we had the numbers for but rather what raids are up (had to physically scout zones for bosses etc that would be on anything from a 1day -1month real time respawn timer) and who are we leaving out (ended up with 10-20 or more any given raid in a wait queue for one of the 72 to leave so we may invite them. I miss those days... yeah xp loss was in EQ and almost broke spirits some nights when hitting an xp sink you'd roll further into it cos in trying to get out you didnt clear your head and get angrier forcing more stupid mistakes hehe... End game made up for it all. For those that dont know EQ... Most ppl have played WoW... graphic style aside WoW basically took most the pros from EQ and made sure not to implement most of the Cons... MMOs use WoW as their basis on how to do it, WoW used EQ. I loved WoW new graphics bunch of yrs between both their original architectures so was hell appealing eye canding even if I did find it bit childish early on from making the switch. WoW had done everything and most EQ players jumped ship to wow over time. Now WoW was hell into instances which was one of the last things EQ started adding in before WoW. This combined with the colorful eye candy and a beginner friendly base (another thing EQ changed 3/4 way through its peak reign - Originally you would start at A and progress through the open world not much blocking progression or exploration other than lvl of mobs and stuff only to die to some mob at point B, finding out this was one of your first days on game you were running all over the place without the new standards of trackers etc guiding players through MMO objectives etc and now had to get back to your body to loot your own possessions cos you were naked and cant remember the paths you took. I am good with directions and being first person I didnt really find it hard to navigate the zones when initially running through but many including my friends did. Give a mate a full set of gear they die and you end up having to find their corpse with them cos if they dont find it will decay and my time and money wasted before the idiots hit mid lvls) This was not a problem last 1/4 of its reign or for WoW, as EQ slowly changed and WoW adopted their own version of getting back to where you were. I hit max lvl in WoW, I raid I love raiding but for all its pros I felt they had lost that epic feeling slightly with their 40 player endgame... next second they scrap 40man and adopt a 10/25 man two tier philosophy which is now standard other than the numbers you get a smaller slightly lower tier end game for small communities and heroic type upper tier for bigger communities. Still loved raiding but it was another tear away of something that had drawn me in to MMO's(Hence MASSIVELY multiplayer- 10man end game does not come under that category). I didnt question it when I swapped to WoW and first half of life lvling, as I assumed from EQ everything would be as they say "Bigger & Better". Blizzard made a statement saying smaller community models they felt were easier for ppl to organise and be involved in.. yes but would that really stop players? I had been involved in an 99% Aussie guild on an american server that had come to the point were were amongst the top guilds on the server (I played on The Rathe Server which anyone who played alot of EQ had few prominent guilds one of which somehow released the Last End Boss which at the point in time was not actually designed to be taken on and caused controversy as the Dragon killed the raid then went on rampage through the zones in the world killing everyone it came near) Now with The Rathe there was a stupid Kill board kept outside of the game on the net in which as a small crappy guild you were given free reign... when you killed a world boss your guild was put at the bottom of the list for that raid and all the guilds that were victorious rotated through and you had reserved cycle turn. So basically log on as a guild for a raid (If its not your turn on a respawn... send scouts to find a raid event that was up and try down it get on to another boss rotation. We felt good as we started making our way on this list and everyone seemed to adhere to codes of ethics... your turn on a cycle respawn but you wanted to do something else you would contact next guild in list and tell em you will be passing its theirs. Problem was we were now becoming well oiled machine and would be picking raids from cycles we hadnt achieved knowing the day it should respawn for the guilds that were due. Being Aussie time zone we got onto alot of the lists very fast and I started getting annoyed that we were now being governed by a 3rd party list. I wanted us to ignore the list and just kill **** we want to kill if it was up and I knew that would collaspe the entire list... cos by us going rogue the other top guilds woulda taken it personally and tried to make sure we didnt kill these bosses... Heheh Ummmm did they realise they were all US Guilds. They would be impeding ea other to stop us when the fact is we reigned supreme GMT+8. We coulda started chain farming alot as ****loads of mobs list would been null and void and we didnt have anyone to compete with when scouting for em and trying to down em. Our leaders didnt want to which is a shame it woulda sky rocketed us to top guild soon enough if we did cos one guild farming bosses to gear up for next progressions was alot easier than 8-15 US ones fighting ea night to be first to scout and assemble before another. Sorry for that detour offtopic but was part of the epicness for me and I felt we had outgrown their 3rd party dictatorship. My Desktop blew up end of '11 start of '12 and I left gaming for next 8-9months get back and mate has got me onto SWTOR. I wont complain that its following a successful model before it ( "its just a wow clone" ), cut the graphics etc out of WoW it was an EQ clone... thats just simple business progression. But once again I start asking about raids (now called ops) and mate tells me 8-16... GRRRRRRR less epic... I can get that playing *********** console gaming massively multiplayer dont just mean ******** of ppl together but only handful can do things together... whats the diff between that just starts making me feel like the whole world is a glorified chat lobby like some other games and raid is when you and few in chat lobby host a game. (From the eyes of someone that loves endgame raiding, lvling up I like but I can happily do solo on these games and wont find me really associating with non friends or guildiees). Well I'm 45 and week off work so gonna thrash to 50 next few days and finally see what its like on SWTOR. I have been loving SWToR and havent logged back into my wow account since the day I reactivated and mate said he plays this aswell cos I did wanna try it but am after whatever can knock wow off its pedestal. Games coming so much faster now than they were when WoW took the crown and not one has been able to go more than like 6months or so before switching to F2P options. Either way SWTOR has the best Quest/Storyline of any MMO I experienced.And it has also integrated the solo player side of things very well with companion and cutscenes that make you feel like you going through starwars version of Elder scrolls.

Just read my previous post god damn that was longer than it felt typing it out hehe. But after reading it and realizing most points are justified I left out one HUGE factor... The world revolves around getting more if you are willing to pay. How is someone that wants to pay for multiple accts and be less social on a MMO in the process any different to me being able to do alot more than a free to play player can or that I got on and within first day had 12 toons created all decked out with gear and sold my mate that got me into it a couple of super mounts thanks to cartel. Is that cheating because I chose to do that when I started instead of wasting the cash the next night at a club pub etc like I would. This whole thread when you encompass the game mechanics itself without the boxing/macro theory is based on attacking ppl who are willing to pay to get ahead. I dont make any more than the next low lvl blue collar but that week or once a month whatever the case may be, I make sacrifices because opening some stoopid lil box in a game gives me a smile or subscribing so I can have more alts go more places and do things you cant for free. I aint ever heard a free to play call a sub a cheat... why not based on theory behind multiple accts etc. Starting day 1 with +41 gems, adaptive armor, half global legacy unlocked and few mill credits selling some mounts from cartel to mate for under half what they were on trade is alot more epic in scale and game unbalancing than I ever found in boxing. You need skill to box something thats not grinding and is aimed at your lvl and gear (other than easy tank spank bosses) the event script mechanics are still involving you making multiple logical actions to accomplish the task as the game considers you as multiple players thinking individually which is easier when you think about an event where at this point tanks need to move to "X and do something, dmg have to cc or kill adds from over near "y" and healers poss pick up something floating around to give em bonus or mitigation needed to survive a phase (example). Boxing costs money 9 times out of 10 and out of it the avg boxer will do so to see if he could kill a lower tier raid(ops) without another real person for drops or carry low lvl alts etc. Not sure I seen or heard of more than one or two in the 9mill wow players that could box raids intended for individuals at their characters tier lvl. And is alot harder than having ea of those accts run by person that only has to do his role at any one time. Welcome to the World my friends. Everything is going free with the pay for more option.

Hmmmm logged into forums to investigate if I could bind or macro emoticons or companion abilities, so I could taunt an enemy on killing blow in WZ or be able to get my companion back round a corner out of los to draw ranged npcs close together etc. Came across this post and had to reply reading some comments. Multi-Boxing is not really cheating, in essence you are not botting you are not hacking you are just a single person controlling more than one acct(of which ea acct has been paid for) For a decent Multibox setup thats worthwhile you need to subscribe or somehow get a decent Boxing application. Who wants a bunch of pcs running chewing up electricity whether or not you have connected em to one keyboard or mouse when a boxing client can do it all in one pc one monitor. I used ISBoxer for WoW/Eve that required me to be subscribed to innerspace then once setup I would have an active window for current character and smaller windows elsewhere on screen (you setup window position sizing etc). once done you then setup your profiles ie when my main cast lightning on enemy two of my alts join him another heals me and another groups heals etc(just basic example) and clicking on an alts lil window switched it to be main character other rotates to lil screen and profile changes so now when this guy hits a key for one of his abilities alt one does x alt does y and so on. Ea time you switched main(i rarely did) all alts would now follow the new main(that there is prolly the real exploit I saw and biggest reason for me to get it cos I originally had multi pcs etc and had use of family friends and my 2nd acct toons etc while they werent playing) but was a drag and I got annoyed and when looking for peripheral and cost to connect keyboard and mouse to all systems came across ISboxer and few others. I checked legalities because as far as I was concerned using multi pc and multiple keyboards etc with ea acct being paid for could not be something they could have a go at me for.) It wasnt against ToC cos I wasnt breaking anything or tampering just had it so I didnt have to hit 1 on 5 keyboards etc. Originally I would run ea toon to where I was hunting and would camp a section my alts just sat their (friends got xp while at work etc and I was working overtime cos I was doing dmg and killing things splitting xp to all of us and other than buffs pre fight and one or two heals mid fight from the alt healer I didnt want to hit buttons and move mouse all the time for all of em). With the auto switch follow in app I was overjoyed I could run all to camp at once etc. Dont really see it as cheating cos to do a decent 5man boss etc you still needed 5 and that still meant 5 accts were being paid for. As far as pvp goes its even less of a cheat if any... I have known some awesome boxers in my yrs of mmos and they would dominate in pvp.... only if the ppl up against didnt know their ****. Its easy to set yourself up and pve in your own controlled environment you've chosen... how does one do that pvp? wicked you got isboxer you got 5 toons that devastate and kill everything you all follow chain cast have setup heals etc... what do you do when I run straight upto you not worried I am pansy caster and use a separate and cc ability or two while then starting to properly engage one of your characters... ie - your boxed alts are now running around feared knocked back asleep etc hopefully the ones not cc'd run out of follow range so you cant make use of the follow key to gather your composure and then proceed start on your healer or priority target of my choice. Multiboxers strategy goes downhill and 7 times out of 10 I would trump or come close on a 4-5 on 1 handicap. pvp is not scripted and cant be anticipated so take out that boxing ability and the boxer ends up having to give up worrying about control of 1+ (as many as you can break off the box there and then) and has to deal with controlling the characters he still has doing what he wants with every key stroke. watch how many boxers die in the arse when their system that they have been relying on goes pair shape. I know cos it is why i wouldnt box pvp in wow. you lose alt following or ccd etc and you dont have time to run your main close enough to pick up the follow etc... I willl kill you before you got em all gathered... instead you would start focusing on me at more of a one on one lvl and worry bout picking your alts up after the battle... Hehe 5 accts or whatever you pay for and someone calls it cheating in pvp... I call it waste of accts. The hardest thing is cc in pvp boxing...all your toons scatter diff directions you cant really setup break stun keys etc cos if done logically youd really want them bound to same key stroke all accts, which wastes 4 cooldowns cos you needed to free one person. with all the diff abilities etc and things you could setup you dont really want break stun on diff key for ea toon as you'd need alot of abilities and keybinding slots to setup the other actions taken by the ones not breaking the stun when you hit that button. And when I get cained by a boxer I dont think cheat I dont think i was outmatched... I think they got mad skills cos my own skills break up most boxers ability setups which in essence breaks them. and btw I have no quarm with not being able to use macro or box if game dont want me to just would have been nice to assign emotes etc to keys or something cos i aint gonna try type /fistbump while 1sec cast killing blow knowing theres 2 others left, but would love to do that sort of taunting in pvp as I wouldnt really use the emotes otherwise unless bored talking to friend in fleet. Macros in WoW werent frowned upon cos you still needed to know your role and rotations etc macros just simplified it all so while running a raid I could be guiding my noob r/l mate that could be sitting beside me on what to do where to stand etc without having to be 110% on the ball. The game designers can stop major exploits used via macroing... I used a 696 or 969 69er rotation as paladin in wow when tanking and had a chain of 6 second cooldowns setup on button 1 and 9 second ones on the 2 and could spam 1,2 for most things just making sure I do whats needed during different phases of event. Most ppl had something setup and more and more joined me and those I had joined on a decent complex 2 button spam only for blizz to put in certain procs for example... one of my abilities now gets boost or mana cut when another ability procs meaning you want to use it then not just spam it so that macro button spam rotation goes out of window cos the abilities now work better or rely on other abilities for most use... You could still keep your macro but you'd be sub par to someone going through a standard key rotation. So theres heaps of ways to stop exploited in-game macros. I want in-game macros more so for the cosmetic and social aspect so I can hit a button and I send an emote and say something. And to be honest Im cool with no macro but am pissed I cant drag companion ability from ability page or emoticon list to my hotbar. I havent boxed in a while and only got back into gaming recently after yr or so getting heavy into my paintball, racing etc. but love the ability to box cos its fun when you start knowing an mmo back to front and can actually add playability to a game you may have spent 5-10less playing if not for mucking round trying to kill epic **** by yourself... woot you killed a 10man raid solo... hmmm at 10xmonthly subscription = deserved if willing to pay for it. (not too mention if they all your accts thats all the accts you need to gear up which can be alot of effort and time over single toon - and if boxing using mates characters thats just good mates dont call cheater cos you obviously have no r/l mates on game or none that let you use their acct. And macros rock can be controlled by devs and other than novelty take some time to setup decent ones cos lets face it you can setup macroing in the windows environment that will transfer in-game anyway so its not like they actually stop ppl. Guess gonna have to setup programmable key macro to /fistbump my next victim upon death. In Conclusion Boxing is an expensive way to PvE but not really exploit and a skillful art in pvp unless someone manages to snipe with a couple of cycles of all their toons ranged nukes. sorry post is long winded and could be simplified but its hell late half asleep and I was just doing my macro search before I went to bed when came across this post.