No I'm not, I'm arguing that their AoE damage is fine as it is. Sure before 7.0 they used to be the tank far behind the others in AoE damage. But ever since Chained Volts got introduced that just isn't the case anymore. They have plenty of AoE damage with it. Certainly not the area to buff them in for any game mode. Giving them some more sustain in pvp like OP suggests seems like a way more useful buff. As they can struggle with survivability a bit in pvp.

Not aoe damage lol. Sin tank is broken, but not for damage reasons. You could take away all its AoE damage or buff it into the stratosphere. It doesn't matter for pve. It's their mechanic skipping together with shroud just being crazy versatile cd that makes them op.

Of course more AoE damage won't make them broken in pve, they already are. Can't break something that's already broken. And who says the playerbase says that sin tanks have poor damage? That's just you saying that. Sin tanks have solid AoE damage, maybe not quite as much as PT, but absolutely competitive. When did I ever say stealthout is Op? It obviously isn't. But is definitely an advantage over not having it. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I disagree. And I'm explaining why, is that not one of the reasons for having a forum at all? To discuss the state of the game with other players?

What other data do you have on damage except for parses? I get the dislike for dummy parses, but boss parses is the closest we're going to get to how classes can actually perform in combat outside of someone creating a database for pvp parses. You literally said: So presumably you thing the AoE damage is an issue, no? Otherwise why ask for it to be buffed? Well I disagree, Sins have very competitive AoE damage if they opt for AoE Volts. Even their single target damage isn't far behind the others. And with Stealthout in PvP and Shroud still being completely busted in PvE they should be worse in some category than the other two tanks, might as well be having slightly lower single target damage.

I didn't miss the especially pvp part, if I was talking pve I'd explain why sin tanks are broken. As they are the best pick for basically every single boss (usually two sin tanks is the best setup even). The parses are just the only real source of data we have on damage. AoE damage is the last problem sin tanks have, be it in pve or pvp. A Wither, DV, Discharge is going to hit like a truck in pvp just as well as it does in pve.

Tank dps is all incredibly close at the moment. With AoE Depredating Volts sin tanks have nothing to fear from the other two tanks in the AoE department. Seriously take a look through some top tank parses on parsely: On Brontes highest is jugg, but less than a 100 dps over the next parse which is a Sin. On Dread Council, Sin provides the highest parse. This being straight up boss parses, not just dummy parsing. Sin tanks don't need any more damage either. They keep up with the others just fine, and with DV, Wither and Discharge can pack impressive AoE.

I feel like the upper end to this is a bit too much. With just Depratdating Volts and Discharge (which you can use immediatley after devour) you're already consuming all stacks on the off targets and 5 on the main target. That already scales up to 40% healing every other Wither (so every 20 seconds). Obviously that is a highball number, but even if we're only hitting 4 targets it's 20%, which is way too much. It also encroaches onto Ancient Tome of Exar Kun's territory by being another tactical that scales defensives by number of target you can hit. Essentially if you make this tactical, you can more or less get rid of Ancient Tome of Exar Kun altogether, which did become a fair bit stronger with its fairly recent buff. I do like the idea of adding some self healing, so perhaps something a little more straightforward. Back in the day Force Lightning (now replaced by Depradating Volts) used to heal 2% max health per tick with 3 stacks of Harnassed Darkness. The problem was that this couldn't really be balanced between PvE and PvP. For it to be good in PvE, it had to be OP in PvP. So eventually that was changed to granting 1% DR stacking up to 4 stacks (as we have now). I say why not bring this back as a PvP focused tactical for Sin tanks? It's clean, simple and provides a fair amount of regular self healing. My suggestion would be simple: Each time you gain a stack (or refresh your stacks) of Dark Protection, you also heal for 2% of your maximum health.

It is energy damage, which is equivalent in every way to kinetic damage. (that is why force lightning and telekinetic throw are equivalent, even though one is energy and one is kinetic). White damage means it's melee or ranged (in this case ranged). All melee and ranged damage is kinetic or energy. And all kinetic and energy damage benefits from armour break (because it is mitigated by armor). Only internal and elemental damage, which is always force or tech (yellow) doesn't benefit from armor break. (Because internal and elemental damage aren't mitigated by armor)

It's got sustained damage and AoE pressure. What you'd expect from a dot spec. Obviously it doesn't hold a candle to AP when it comes to burst, but that's kind of the point, it shouldn't.

Burst used to be fantastic with Superheated Fuel making all fire damage guaranteed crits. It's definitely less since that was nerfed, but it's a sustained spec and brings very good AoE as well, it shouldn't have amazing burst. Your suggestion wouldn't really help in any way, since elemental damage (which Immolate is) is superior to energy damage (what you suggest to change it to) even with an armour break active, since it completely bypasses armour already. Chaning Immolate to Energy damage would be a straight up nerf. And armour break makes no sense for Pyro, since almost all of your damage bypasses armour anyway.

Damage reduction passive increases are all additive, so I very much doubt that. The proof is in internal/elemental DR. That's 13% for Rage, and 15% for Vengeance. (10+3 and 10+5). So it looks like either the damage reduction from Shien or the always active damage reduction from Defening Defense is bugged. Edit: Or easier yet, just take off the armour and check the values of Kinetic/Energy DR. 3% for Rage, 5% for Vengeance, something is bugged.

AP could do with a bit more damage perhaps, but Pyrotech is perfectly fine as far as dps is concerned. Dummy parses don't do them justice, as in actual fights you'll get a lot more damage. Here's a couple of reasons why: - Thermal Yield actually gets to stack up in fights, giving you a 10% damage boost with a 50% uptime (rather than 2% damage boost with ~16.7% uptime on dummy). - Pyro Shield makes you deal damage when you take damage. Great for getting some extra damage in. - Close and Personal makes you vent heat when taking damage, leading to less basic attacks and more flame bursts, so more damage. All these things together means dummy parses are a poor reflection of Pyrotech's damage potential in raids, which is quite high. Which is why it is quite a popular class in raids. Its biggest downside has nothing to do with damage, but is its lack of a self-cleanse.

It just doesn't have miserable single target damage. Yes, parsely does mean something, it shows how specs perform on long term sustained dps. That does not always translate perfectly into raids, but it is definitely something. And when looking at actual boss parses, we can again see Anni performing just fine. Anni's sustained damage is not its problem. If Anni performs so poorly in pvp, and I'll fully take your word for that, that's not my area of expertise, then surely your suggested CC immunity seems like a great help. Maybe buff some other PvP related options perhaps? In PvE Annihilation is already very, very good. It brings great sustained single target damage, coupled with frankly insane raid healing and great raid utilities. All I've said, and you've brought me nothing to dispute this, is that Anni already has great single target sustained damage in PvE, which translates to solid damage in raid settings and brings great utility. Anni doesn't need anything to buff it in PvE right now. So CC immunity is fantastic. Strong in PvP, mediocre in PvE. Great way to help Anni in PvP without impacting PvE too much. And will also help translate Anni's theoretical sustained damage into actual damage, since CC immunity guarantees you better uptime in PvP. But you can't just keep claiming Anni's single target is bad just because you say so. It just isn't.

Pure AoE healing sorc has nothing on Operative. Revivication tickles compared to Kolto Waves, and Roaming Mend is more of a burst heal than an AoE heal. You can add Toxic Haze with tactical if you want (though I much prefer surgical) and the Kolto Injection AoE thingy. Sorc comes nowhere near the same AoE healing, but has other strengths.

Parsely parses might not be perfect, but for measuring single target sustained dps, they're pretty okay. Better than just you claiming oh I parse 28k on Anni and 35k+ on Ling. As for skill factor, the top parses are from the top players of each specs (or top parses anyway), so that more or less evens out. Unles you think that people playing Anni are just better at doing high dps than people parsing Lightning as a group, which is a pretty dubious assumption. You wondered why people consider Anni to be a top dps. It's because it's near the top in sustained damage, with great utility. Giving it more AoE damage is just silly from a pve perspective. The CC immunity you suggested seems like a great way to specifically address some pvp related weaknesses without impacting pvp, and I've been all for that from the start. I just see no reason to buff smash. If anything to help in pvp maybe make it easier to build/maintain some stacks (maybe just get rid of Annihilator stacks alltogether and reduce Annihilate's CD to what it is with stacks now?)