Excepting that if you compare a fully buffed Throw with a fully buffed Project, it doesn't matter if I get interrupted... heck, I interrupt myself quite often to throw an interrupt/stun at my target... because I can simply just reclick throw again, no cool down. The only reason I ever used Project is because I had a CD on throw. And that was before I specced anything. Without a CD, throw is infinitely better IMO. Yes, project can stun normals/weaks, but then throw in effect stuns them as well (for 3 seconds)... several times I lived through early levels because an enemy would charge me while I was taking down something else, then I simply force wave them away, and use throw... they never make it back to me. Add in that fully buffed throw gets a force regen, improved crit, and the chance to make other spells instant. And all of that is in a single tree. Project splits the abilities into multiple trees... I am not saying remove project or that it is useless. I think Project could use a slight buff in damage (you are throwing a friggin boulder at someone afterall), and maybe reformat the trees a touch to make it more viable, instead of making people HAVE to play basically the same build to be able to simply have it be as useful as throw.

So, in short, because you have PA, HS, and Upheaval... Project is worth using? Now, the question would be, "is it worth using if you ONLY had one of those abilities?" If an ability is not worth using unless you have 2+ talents specced for it, then the ability should have been better, and they should have spent less of our trees on making it worthwhile: AKA a Skill Tax where they give us no choice but to spend points in those abilities (first off) and those abilities are needed to make an otherwise subpar ability worth using. Check the combat tech's tree, where else 'could' you have spent those pts? Oh yeah, not really anywhere worth having. So no choice, if you want to go down that tree, you pretty much SHOULD spend the pts there for the synergy of abilities... abilities that turn an ability from being below mediocre into being pretty cool and about the same use as spammable throw (which btw, only takes a SINGLE talent specced) Compare that: Throw with a single talent is equal to project with THREE talents specced (of which one is really high on a tree, and links to Throw as well)... The abilities are not even remotely close to each other. I realize that the spammable throw is not available to shadows, but really, that makes it even more obvious. They basically said Sage is the pure caster and gets to 'good' spells as a result, while shadow is Melee and gets melee attacks (which sages don't)... So they gave shadows a subpar spell and the ability to make it decent.

Well, I enjoyed the consular storyline a good bit... but then, when give the options we have, not a big surprise: Trooper : a pretty good class with a very generic "Hey, I'm a trooper" storyline Smuggler : a broken class with a pretty funny storyline, but difficult to continue since the class is so broken Knight : Class is pretty decent, with a "How shall we save the entire universe this week T7?" storyline... For the knights out there, exactly how many utterly devastating planet-killing weapons do we have out there?!? And with all this, how come it took 3500 years to come up with something the size of a moon that destroys planets??? Consular has really nice abilities, a dual playstyle (melee or caster, so good for almost everyone), and a storyline that pretty much encapsulates the entire jedi concept: "There is no emotion, there is peace; There is no ignorance, there is knowledge; There is no passion, there is serenity; There is no chaos, there is harmony; There is no death, there is the Force." And: "Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things." Entire concept is, there is an imminent galaxy-wide problem that could make things much worse, so you try to peaceably solve the issue and save everyone involved with as little violence as possible; Then, there is a major rift in the republic and you play Jean-Luc running around doing diplomacy; Have not played Act 3, so cannot speak about it... In any case, it appears to be the ultimate "Jedi Code" story... try to handle all things and prevent major problems by maintaining peace, harmony, etc... and, if you go Dark Side, you can get a lot of excitement and adventure, otherwise, you are attempting to keep those things at a minimum.

Option 1: Give moddable techblade (really not that hard, it's only a cosmetically different vibrosword anyways!) Option 2: Merge servers (since there are people that work on armstech, this would make a better selection of REALLY good Techblades on the GTN) Option 3: Move him to Str based Option 4: Allow him to use Vibroswords as well so people can grab the orange VS's, or if they don't care about the extra bonus to his tech AoE's (I don't) they can just equip him with str gear OR aim gear and not care.

I believe he is exercising his right to use a tiny bit of exaggeration... By no one, he is simply stating he believes a majority dislike the ability. Given the following: Seers mostly heal, and only use project during cooldowns of throw, that would include them. Telekinetics use Disturbance in lieu of project, includes them Balance people use spammable throw since no cooldown Combat Tech shadows use project until harness is at 3 stacks, then use throw (so maybe kinda does not include them), and even then it takes multiple talents to make it somewhat worthwhile, and that is only so they can do the Harness... Stealth shadows I honestly have no clue, but they may like it for the stuns Balance shadows only use it to proc Twin Discipline, otherwise not even sure if they would use it... Seems to me that people mostly prefer not to use it, and the ones who do, only use it to get non-damage related benefits. The amount of people that use it for damage are very few (probably less than 5% of players that have access to it as an ability) thus making the term "No one" usable, as long as there isn't anyone who is a stickler for exact definitions and believe all words should be used in absolutely literal ways... Most people still believe in allowing non-literal speech. For instance, you say you "love" your inf... do you actually love it? Or is that just a figure of speech? If it is literal, let us all know when the wedding is, so we can make sure to buy presents and such...

Apparently, I'm the only person who sees it my way... but then, I really do like having him as a companion (just wish he was worthwhile ability wise over Qyzen)... I think he is a certifiable genius, and likes women for fun, but the only 'woman' he has found that is not a moron is Holiday (who is an alien holo-race of some sort)... Now, this is what I see from him, thinking all women are cute, just not as smart as him, or as capable... so fun physically, but not keeping up with him intellectually. He is an extremely arrogant smart-*** yes, so keep in mind, if he is looking for something more than a hookup, he would either be looking for a complete idiot (near brainless) if he was a chauvinistic type (easy to control if you are a genius) or look for someone more his equal. I think he is looking for the equal. Not being sexist in any way, nor calling women stupid, but from someone who has a 200 IQ, anyone with 140 seems moronic... Whether the 200 is male or female, and the 140 is male or female, does not matter.

The mods are pretty friggin good, so would probably spend a lot of commendations or money on re-modding his robe with stuff that only helps out his very few tech abilities, so not much gain either. My main point was that if you put him in str gear, it isn't that big of a loss. Str is almost as good as aim for him, and due to me heavily disliking his AoE's, Str is AS GOOD as aim (for me)... So, why would I re-mod a perfectly good setup, then? I could spend multiple thousands of credits (33rd lvl, have under 100K, would spend maybe 20K or so) just to have the same end effect? Seems like wasting money to me.

Please please please! For non force users of course... We already have tons of aim gear, just need some cunning gear as well... By gear, I mean droid parts of course...

I dunno, no confusion here, but since I have a DPS/CC Sage, I have pretty much neutered Qyzen's abilities for AoE as best as I can... I use primarily Aim gear, with the exception of a single non-aim piece - a Jedi Knight robe (orange, so can mod it) that has a hood. I think my lizard looks a heck of a lot cooler now, and the amount he loses on tech-abilities is almost nothing due to him not really having many I have allowed him to use. Just FYI, I do a lot of CC'ing in the game, so anytime anyone uses an AoE damage ability I get frustrated. I don't even use lift (3 targets) in groups anymore, since it seems the ONLY class that does not use an AoE at every possible moment is the SAGE. Sad part is, I can solo same-level heroic +2's easily. When I get asked to help anyone else do the exact same +2, there is a good chance we will die... /smh Needless to say, Yes, his main stat is Aim, because he is basically a Vanguard-Type that uses Techblade (wish they would allow Vanguards to use Techblades)... But a lil loss of Aim to sub in Str for cosmetic reasons really doesn't affect him at all.

Now, I don't have an operative up at 50 yet, but judging from the abilities I do have, and from what I can research online, the build I am planning on as a healer, and more... The rotation I am tentatively looking at is this: 1) 15 Kolto Probe (18 Sec) / 85 Energy 2) 30 Nanotech (15 Sec) @ 1.5 regen 4.5 / 59.5 Energy 3) 0 Diagnostic Scan @ 3.0 - 6.0 regen 13 / 72.5 Energy 4) 15 Kolto Probe @ 7.5 regen 4.5 / 62 Energy 5) 0 Surgical Probe @ 9.0 regen 6 / 68 Energy 6) 0 Diagnostic Scan @ 10.5 - 13.5 regen 14 / 80 Energy 7) 0 Surgical Probe @ 15 regen 5 / 85 Energy 8) 0 Diagnostic Scan @ 16.5 - 19.5 regen 17 / 100 Energy 9) Repeat Step 1 @ 21.0 Since you can stack 2 Kolto Probes to HoT at same time, and every 4.5 Sec have a 30% chance each to gain tactical advantage, would effectively allow you to use Surgical Probe definitely after 9.0 Sec, and almost certainly after 15 seconds. Nanotech is a little expensive, but as an instant AoE HoT, taken early in rotation it adds a 3rd layer of ticking to the scheme. DS seems not so hot, but add in 2 extra energy regen'd per critical (and a +24% chance to crit), means getting back a ton of energy over a long fight + having a 0 cost filler in between recycling HoT's and firing off Surgical Probes. Very rarely is your main target going to be out from under a HoT, but after the first rotation, you should have at least 1 TA left to throw an additional SP if you want, otherwise just cycle back to step 1 and begin again. The reason I posted this, is because Surge affects Crit amounts (not %, but the effect of the crit)... Since an Op/Sc is throwing 3 HoT's AND using a ticking Crit-Monster like DS (+24% is a HUGE bonus on a free effect), having big surge bonus would give a HUGE reward... This class reminds me of the warden tree of Rift. The object was to cycle HoT's constantly on the target, keeping all stacks maxed or near max, while throwing an instant heal every so often to fill the gaps. This sort of healer requires a player that can juggle their spells very competently, which most players cannot do. So, I understand the vast majority of them screaming about how bad they are getting nerfed. If you cannot play the class exactly as it is intended, then any minus will sting badly. If you CAN play it well, then you would understand that the Op/SC is probably #1 Healer for Single Targets due to Instants, Crits, and HoT's + Diagnostic Scan... So a lil nerf will only bring them more in line (but that is only true of the people who play them to their fullest, the rest feel like they are being destroyed)

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is not Sandbox/Not Sandbox in what you are asking. It is designed content amount. Just because a game is Sandbox, does not mean it has complete freedom. There was a very short-lived MMO some years back called Ferentus. It was a Sandbox by all definitions that I can find. But it just had no content. The people who designed it did very poorly in adding stuff to the game, it was a few cities with quests and a whole LOT of enemies. No caves, no dungeons, nothing really to explore... Just a HUGE world, some cities, and enemies... =/ Like I said, "within parameters/constraints/etc" WoW doesn't have the "added content" you are expecting with modern games (some of which are NOT sandboxes), but this does not make WoW a non-sandbox game.

Exactly! How about this equation for the original guy talking about 'grinding + chatting': If gear grinding + not-chatting = fun... Oh, sorry, that is what most modern games are, and it does NOT equal fun... it equals suck. All MMO's are going to have some sort of grind to them: XP grinding, Gear grinding, Crafting grinding, etc... So, the only thing you can change in YOUR equation would be the chatting ('B' variable), because every game is going to have the 'A' variable : Grinding. So, you just don't like games? or you don't like chatting and being social?

Sorry for snipping, but we both apparently like to make long posts, and rather than have each page of the thread = 1 post (including a reply AND the quoted material) I ~snip~... lol As for what you are describing, it fits under my description. Sandbox (in either case) allows the player to do whatever they want, but only within the constraints of the designed game. It is only that the term means different things in single-player vs MMO. One could call SWTOR a sandbox... if they were speaking about single-player games. Since it is an MMO, though, it is DEFINITELY NOT a sandbox. Yes, in the game you mention, you can place your fortress/guild hall/house/whatever, wherever you wish, and build it however you wish... but the design elements are part of the game. In a medieval sandbox MMO, I can build reasonable whatever castle or whatever that I wish... however, I cannot build a glass skyscraper, because it is not within the limitations of the game. Even the castles that you design are limited. I cannot build a flying citadel, for instance. Nor can I build exactly the shape or design I want every time. Even sandboxes have parameters. So, yes, sandbox means geography and style of design (linear/non-linear) more than it means WHAT you can do. Fallout 3/Elder Scrolls are considered to be the best examples we have for an MMO-style sandbox (even though they are single-player)... yet, the housing in those games is exactly what they want you to have. No freedom of building stuff anywhere you want. No freedoms of truly crafting a unique weapon. You can go wherever you want, and do whatever you want... as long as the game has it in its program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game I would give more example sites, but unfortunately, every one of them seems to be attached to a game, so may be biased (IE Mortal, Darkfall, etc) Needless to say, Sandbox tends to be attached to the Hardcore Player group, whereas Theme-Park is attached to Casual Players more often than not.

Depends on whether you come from a single player game environment or an MMO environment. Single Player Environment Sandbox Sandboxes are small enclosed areas where you have absolute freedom, but only within the confines of the parameters. Therefore, from a single player standpoint, SWTOR is a sandbox. You can wander wherever you want and do whatever you want (within the allowances of those borders). Also, WoW has some of those elements. Technically, those large areas have boundaries that you cannot climb over or bypass... but then, EQ also had areas like that (Zones) that forced a person to have to walk the wall until they got to a road or pass that would allow them entrance. Most linear games (online or offline) follow this method. Every player experiences the exact same basic storyline, with each character possibly having its own unique variation of that same story. MMO Environment Sandbox A sandbox is a place where you have complete freedom, "It's YOUR sandbox, play how you want!" With MMO's it is more generally accepted as a sort of synonym for "Open-World". EQ2 was more this style, as well as EQOA. WoW had those enclosed areas, but they were friggin HUGE compared to an EQ zone, so even though you had borders, they were so far out as to instead be considered to be boundaries of the actual game, not the area you were in. The only other boundaries they had were mountains that were impassable, but that is an ok limit. Rift is a better example of this, as one can truly just climb all the way up a mountain and cross into very hostile territory (in fact they have achievements and rewards for climbing mountains lol), offline examples of this are The Elder Scrolls games, Fallout 3, and Fallout New Vegas. Non-linear games tend to follow this method, as it also tends to be a style that allows each player to take very different paths, all leading to the same end, but different paths nonetheless; as well as having various extra quests and content that are not required. Most players will only see a fraction of all there is in a game like this, having chosen a path that took them elsewhere. I wouldn't say SWTOR is an example of the second version because instead of having LARGE (almost endless) areas that connect to each other, they have fairly large areas but in reality having 3 fairly large areas connected, doesn't equal having an entire continent (15-20 Large areas at the least) connected.

#1: WoW wasn't even WoW when it first came out Everyone keeps comparing SWTOR to WoW (the current one)... how many of you remember when it first came out? To say it was almost nothing like it is now, would be an understatement. If you want to compare new games to the current WoW, you are never going to find one that will stand up. #2: WoW did something unique, and for that I DO praise it (even though I don't like it personally) WoW is/was a mix of Theme-Park AND Sandbox. They blended the two very well, and it works very well. I, personally, cannot stand it for the same reason I don't play games like Fiesta and FLYFF... WAY too casual and kiddy-friendly. I prefer my more serious games that take time to master, and effort. I also DO like that the older games took time to get from one place to another. It feels more REAL, AND they usually had tons of stuff along the way (hidden caves or ruins, named enemies, etc). #3: Casual Player does not mean Bad Player, it just means a type of player who needs a different game than what some others want. I don't see why Developers don't understand this. They continue to vomit up all of these games that are meant for casual players, but then never make a game for hardcore players. I understand they want to make money, no problem with that. But when they see 200K-500K people unsatisfied, and say whatever; I look at that group and see an opportunity. Yes, make these games, but then also make a second game (maybe not as expensive, but who cares) that is meant for the others. THEN you will have BOTH groups paying you, AND they will be happy! #4: The problem with all these games IS that they try to be WoW. Look through our history. Very rarely is the copy worth anything compared to the original. If they truly ADD or IMPROVE on something, then it may succeed. But simply making copies of something inevitably makes less and less money. Basically, it is the Photo-Copy effect: Photo-Copy the original and have decent quality, Photo-Copy the Copy and have less quality, etc etc. And the developers only see what works vs what is unproven. WoW worked, sandbox/open-world is unproven (because the number of MMO players then vs now is completely different, so who knows how it would do NOW)... So they continue to clone WoW with a different skin, and the quality of the copies continues to degrade with each game. --------------------------------------------------------------- I have a unique idea for how to fix SWTOR though. Due to the constraints of servers, the amount they can put on each one has to have limits. Apparently, there is a huge outcry for end-game content and just content in general, as well as issues with population, issues with the GTN, and more. So why not use your limitations to your advantage (Think it was Sun-Tzu who said, The truly strong man is the one who turns his weaknesses into strengths). Make each server a different planet. Other games have implemented VERY well, cross-server movement (they just didn't have anything real to work with, SWTOR does have that though, so no worries). When you travel to another planet, you are on a different server. Implement a cross-server GTN, so if anyone anywhere puts something up, then EVERYONE can see it. Implement cross-server PVP AND LFD, because then your reputation still means something as if you screw up in a group, you still might run into those people again (and probably will). This would give room and ability to make each planet as real and fleshed out as they wanted to, and only have to worry about a limited amount of people on each server. Sending tells across servers is not really a problem, other games have had that included and had no issues with it. They would of course need a character-server, so that all toons are stored on it and no names would interfere with each other (all unique names). Just my thoughts.