That's not what I was trying to say, sorry if i gave that impression. I just find it funny that in a posting that is supposed to help people complete an FP they have trouble with "don't do that boss" is acceptable - and yet some people still won't acknowledge that there are problems with the current difficulty level. Just look at the posting above this one

LOL

Ever been in an Assault on Tython Group that didn't do the Adds on the first boss "properly" by standing on them until their shield were knocked down, but instead went downstairs to wait them out? That's what i mean when i say "soft exploit". It's a circumvention of the boss mechanic and unintended by the encounter designer. I am of course NOT talking about situations where LOS is an intended part of the design - such as that one boss in maelstrom prison. Also, it's kinda funny that of all the points i made, this one has been singled out for discussion, all the rest ignored. Guess the others weren't as easy to attack. Ooh, i get to be the spanish inquisition? Wouldn't that be fun. Guess we should continue this with you stretched on a rack, some hot coals and pokers nearby, and me asking periodically if you were ready to confess your use of witchcraft...

Nope, i didn't. That is not the same thing, nor does it logically follow. I'm kinda sick of having you twist my words so that'll be the end right here.

Nope: I was implying that communication via chat has more limitations. No instant "do this, do that" smack in the middle of a fight. Everything has to be said and done before a fight - and if anyone makes a mistake you usually don't have a way to tell him until after the group has wiped and there is time to chat again. I thought that was pretty obvious... Huh? How does not wanting to go through an explanation every time equal PUGs not beeing able to listen to explanations? Hu? How does saying only difficult FPs are subject to my criticism equal saying PUGs can't learn? What are you taking? Can i have some of that? Nope. I was implying that PUGs are different from guild-groups. Aren't they? They start out not knowing each other. Not knowing each other's skill. In a PUG, at the start of an FP, i don't know if anyone has done that FP before. If anyone doesn't know the boss mechanic. Doesn't know the most effective way to circumvent trash. I don'tt know if they have their CC on their toolbar - and know how to use it. I don't even know if there's anything i should explain before the problem becomes apparent - usually after the first wipe... So yes, PUGs ARE different from guild groups.

The argument has always been that certain TacFPs are too hard. What you have proven is that at least some are doable. Both are not mutually exclusive. Taking a long time to complete them is a direct result of a high difficulty. I'm pretty sure you can level as fast as or even faster just going through the story and using common crystals to buy mods. So no, i don't consider it a good deal. Could you quote where i said PUGs can't do something?

I've put that word in quotation marks for a reason. I don't consider LoS to be an intentional part of the game mechanic. But since it's not a bug and not outright cheating i consider it a soft exploit. If it takes a guild.group with players that know each other and communicate via vioce chat just over an hour, you can bet your as* that it wil take the average random PUG about double that time. And that's only IF everyone agrees to listen to the guy explaining stuff in chat. Doesn't always happen in PUGs. It might also be one of the easier ones when compared to say Blood Hunt. The answer is of course: nothing. It will just take longer and most people do not want to deal with that explaining cra* every time the join a TacFP.

Thanks for pointing out the most obious points. Nothing left for me to add... I guess it's now proven that TFPs aren't too hard. If you consider multiple hours time investment, multiple deaths and at one point even LOS "exploiting" as "not too hard". For the record: I do. For the potential reward TFPs are offering, I see no reason to go through all that hassle.

Let me be unmistakably clear: any FP that can be done without having to "learn to play" is automatically not subject to my criticism of having a too high difficulty. Anyone who argues: "well you just have to L2P" and then proceeds to "prove" his point by referring to FPs that DON'T require to L2P didn't prove his argument at all. And on a side note: up until now Torvai's claim of having done False Emperor with base classes is still jsut a claim. We have yet to see that video... Sorry, i'm not going to play that game.

My argument is that if no CC, def-CD or interrupt is needed then "L2P" does not apply as there is nothing to learn, and for the same reason that FP does not serve as a particularly good example to say "hey look, it can be done so just shut up". Correction: i didn't say PUGs cannot figure out how to communicate. I said they will never have the same level of coordination that guild mates have. Subtle difference (actually, no. not so subtle). Did you misunderstand that on purpose while telling me i'm obtuse?

Would you say that right now they ARE all of equal difficulty? If not, a nerf would be the logical conclusion... No worries. I'll just keep reminding you from time to time. I'd really love to see proof of your claims.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Also: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope I'm not going to comment on your assumption i didn't understand or did deliberately misunderstand your posting. We are still talking about lvl 15 base classes? I'm curious: what exactly are you learning on a character that doesn't have interrupts, CCs or defensive cooldowns. Certainly not how/when to interrupt, use your def-CDs or your CC... I'm curious: what are they going to communicate about? Who's going to hit the enemy first? Certainly not when to CC, when to use an interrupt or when to use their def-CDs. SO you are basically saying you agree that some of the Tac-FPs need some work and yet silmutaneously putting everyone who argues that point into the "shut up it CAN be done" category? Also: could you link that video of False Emperor with lvl 15 base classes that you were posting about erlier? And what came out of your attempts to do blood hunt with that constellation? Any luck with that?

Predicting a counter-argument doesn't make it any less true. It just shows that you are aware of it and instead of actually coming up with a rebuttal you just try to head it off by making it seem lame to use it after you have "called it" You realize that it is a fantasy though, do you? PUGs will never have the same level of coordination as guild mates that know each other and have played together multiple times. And yet...tac-FPs have to be balanced for PUGs, not guilds, as the group finder is the most used way of entering them. Games are supposed to be fun. Taking a ridiculously long time to complete an FP (often with multiple wipes), just because you happen to have been thrown in a group with the wrong people, is NOT fun though. People who want a challenge still have hard modes. Why do Tac-FPs need to be a guild-coordination-level challange too?

FPs in Solo Mode are not Tactical FPs. Tac FPs are by definition never Solo. Your argument only serves to undermine everyone in this thread who argued "l2p / use your interrupts / use your defensive cooldowns / use your CCs / communicate". And by that same token it underlines the fact that the False Emperor FP is probably a bad example - and therefore also a bad conter argument. I stand by my earlier comment that I will concede the point if I see a video of 4 Low lvl DDs (doesn't have to be lvl15 base class) doing Blood Hunt. Preferably a PUG with nothing but chat for communication, since that's what most playsers using the group finder will find themselves in.

So where can we see the video? Since you called it, let me fullfill your expectations: One TacFP wihtout problems doesn't prove none of them have problems. Oh, here's another one: Doing the FP with a premade group of guild mates prevents a lot of the problems you have in PUGs.