Republic toons: Sage, Shadow, Scoundrel, Slinger Imperial side: Powertech, Marauder All toons 220 geared and can DPS/Tank/Heal with a specific interest in Shadow and Powertech Tanking, Marauder and gunslinger dps, scoundrel heals and dps.

Let me be clear on a few things. 1. I never said I'm an expert operative. I merely posted a screenshot to assert I have played one for hours so I know the rotation and pvp capabilities well. 2. Operatives aren't on the leaderboard for a few reasons. 2 of them are: 1. People are still playing the old powerful classes like assassin, sorc, and powertech more. and 2. Despite roll's ridiculously good mitigation and increase in survival it does remove the op for 3 seconds from the fight focusing the fire on his teammates. I suggest another defensive ability for ops, not tied to a gap closer that keeps them at the same level they are now. Note that I never said operatives themselves are overpowered, but that roll is unbalanced and cheesy and operatives are almost impossible to kill. I think its annoying for both ops and non ops and another defensive cooldown replacing roll would make both groups happy.

You're right, I guess I should learn to play, but then again if I haven't learned by now by pvping since release on all 8 classes I don't know if I ever will... The immunity is exactly the problem. People don't know how to counter it because its not possible to. Roll is immune to counters (as well as everything else in the game) and cooldown is too short. You can't counter me on my operative either. The only times that I die is if more than 3 people are spamming on me. In every other situation you, absolutely can not kill me on my operative, no matter what you may claim here. I agree #NerfOperatives

operative has root and cc break break. also roll on 10s cooldown

Roll is immune to root and stun

You clearly didnt read my post, and don't have a clear grasp of the issue. Its not the mobility that's being discussed, its the immunity and the super short cooldown...

3 second immunity, to absolutely everything in the game on a 10 second cooldown on demand, is game breaking. The counters to it are roots and stuns which roll is immune to. ADDITIONALLY operatives have single handedly ruined huttball experience for everyone, rolling through half of the map with each roll immune to every single thing in the game including environmental damage. 1 operative at 30% can easily kill another player 1v1 at 100% with roll. 1 operative with roll can delay 3 players from capping a node for at least 5 minutes, and still survive the encounter. If you feel the urge to post here and tell me that if operative roll is nerfed so should force charge, force speed, etc. which aren't even close to concealment roll go ahead, it will only keep my post at the top. If you feel compelled to tell me to play one before I ask for some balance I direct you to this screenshot: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2enow89&s=8#.VfRvy8ledvN Roll needs to have immunity removed on the second one. Or put on a 15 second cooldown. As well as halving the roll distance off the ramps in huttball.

Its denial because you're saying " just counter it" Lol. With what? As a ranged class you want me to run 30 meters to melee range to an op to stun him? Lol he can just stun me too, 50/50 chance. The counters you are suggesting are all resisted by roll, and the operative possesses the same tools. How exactly do I make sure that its me that stuns him and not him that stuns me? What if he breaks his stun? That's not a counter. That's denial. You keep saying get the op to roll, and then it's done. Lol no its not, all he needs to do is shield probe, wz adrenaline, couple of hots, and guess what Roll is up again. Because its on a 10 second cooldown. Are you registering that? Roll is on a 10 second cooldown. So getting the guy to roll doesn't mean you can stop him after. It just means you're giving him some time to pop some other defensive cooldowns while 3 seconds of godmode activity is becoming available again. As long as there isn't 3 healers in the enemy team? Have you played pvp recently? Half of all wz teams are healers these days. So basically the counter to 1 ability in the game is to control mid? Why? Why should a team have to control an entire zone to negate 1 ability and put things on an even ground. You weren't able to trollol across the entire map with your op? sorry to hear that but I can easily do it. I know how easy it is you don't have to try to convince me otherwise. Be serious... Juggernaut enraged defense is not even comparable to Roll. Enraged defense can be burnt through so easily by damage, or can be stunned or rooted or whatever. The operative basically teleports 50m away without you being able to do anything. How about we give Sins the ability to carry the ball through phase walk? How about a 3 second bubble for sorcs every 10 seconds with the ability to move? Undying rage for marauders and add CC immunity every 10 seconds? Gonna put this here from previous posts: Quote: Originally Posted by jauvtus View Post How much dmg immunites classes have? Jugg: 3s (5s with utility) every 60s, but vulnerable to melee white dmg (5%/8,3% uptime) Mara: 4s (6s with utility) every 180s (150s with utility), but only 99% dmg red, still killable at low health (2,22%/4% uptime) Sorc: 10s every 180s (150s with utility) (5,55%/6,66% uptime) Sin: 3s (5s with utility) every 60s , but vulnerable to white dmg; with stealth utility up to 2s every 90s (5%/8,3% uptime; +additional 2.22% uptime, meaning 7,22%/10,5% uptime) PT: none Merc: 6 stack immunity for 1 discipline every 45s, vulnerable to white dmg Sniper: 3s every 60s, but vulnerable to yellow dmg (5% uptime) Op: 3s every 60s (~40s with utility and getting attacked), but vulnerable yellow dmg; with stealth utility up to 2s every 90s (5%/7,5% uptime+additional 2,22% uptime, meaning 7,22%/9,72% uptime) +concealment: 3s every 13s, NOT VULNERABLE TO ANYTHING (23% uptime!!!!, combined with evasion: up to 30%/32,5% uptime!!!!) Every class (who has any kind of immunity) have much smaller uptime, and NEITHER of them are INVINCIBLE (except sorc, but they are sitting in 1 place and cant do anything, conceal can spend some of the immunity freely acting) all are vulnerable to at least 1 form of dmg. Dont get started with roots and stuns and rolling breaking rotation or any other crap, concealment roll is broken! I get it, you're superinvested in this one ability because you want your operative to be overpowered. you know why I don't play mine? Because its incredibly boring, cheesy, and not a challenge. As I've repeated myself 30 times: 100% immunity, to everything, 25% of the time is incredibly overpowered and gamebreaking.

I'm so tired of this discussion. Its impossible to reason with you people. Just finished a huttball game where two scoundrels were playing "row row row the ball gently down map...". just look at how incredibly stupid those animations look rolling over half of the map with each roll off the ramp, literally teleporting across the map with immunity. Please, write me 3 paragraphs on how this is fair and blah blah blah lol. Write me another paragraph on how roll is just like force charge, when in reality its nothing close...You guys are grown men for gods sake. It's called denial. A beautiful map ruined by one ability in the game, with a dev team so careless they probably haven't touched the code in weeks.

You are right. We disagree. I think operatives are very hard to counter and telling me to root, stun, or party up with friends isn't addressing the base problem. I'm not surprised that I haven't changed your mind. I never thought I would. But I'm putting up my argument here so that others can see and judge for themselves.

I think the reason people are annoyed with roll is its very hard to counter. Saying use counterplay isn't addressing the problem. You can make that argument about everything. e.g. old smash: Learn to play dude and don't stack. The counterplays to roll are basically stuns as not every class has a root. What you're saying is the counterplay to complete immunity every 10 seconds is perfectly timing something that's usually on a 1 minute cooldown. Funny enough roll itself is immune to stuns. Some roots are not even that good. For example snipers root is negated after 2 seconds with damage. How is that a counterplay to roll? Don't tell me to get 2 friends to help me kill the operative that's at 30%. That's just ridiculous. The bottom line is roll provides too big of an advantage at almost no cost to the op (2 gcd's of no damage while getting hot heals), on an extremely short cooldow. If you're gona keep giving the counterplay argument realize that roll is objectively superior to its supposed counterplays (shorter cooldown, and immune to any counterplay when its active). Obsessed may be a bit of a strong word but read the responses of your support party in the previous 30 pages. Most are calling us, proponents of change whiners or l2p.

No thanks. I'm not gona wait in a game where I'm defending a door on voidstar, hold off 2 people for 2 minutes while shouting for help, only to die and see the dude plant the bomb on my side with no interruption, while the bomb on the other side also gets planted with 7 people standing around. Also quesh ball? no thanks

1. Yes the operative isn't able to damage while rolling. But still at a huge advantage. Why? Because he can easily negate the enemy's best offensive moves, while he holds on to his, and can just apply them once he's done rolling. As an example you can completely null my cull, while still having your volatile substance available and applying it right after the roll. So no its not 23% damage reduction for both. More like 50% for the enemy and 10% for you. 2. A deception sin can be killed easily when at 30% without vanish, the same cannot be said about an operative.

Again people are trying to muddy the water with half truths. The guy above me in particular is just throwing out random abilities from different classes and saying if youre gona fix roll you have to nerf everything lol. Goes to show you the type of mindset that thinks operative roll is fine in this game. These are the facts: 1. As it stands no class can kill an operative 1v1 even if the operative is at 30%. No other class has that advantage. While pvp is not balanced around 1 v 1 that also doesn't mean ops should have a god like ability 2. Nobody is saying remove roll. Keep roll in the game but either: Remove damage immunity, keep stun and root immunity, OR remove all immunity from the second roll. Immunity to every single ability in the game 23% of the entire time, at your finger tips is clearly unbalanced, cheesy and ridiculous. Cannot explain it any more concisely. Bring on 5 more posts about how warriors can leap and sorcerers can force speed haha.

Go back and read what I wrote. Addressed every single one of your points. How about putting saber reflect on a 10 second cooldown? After all its not balanced around 1v1. It would be ok if you needed 3 players to take down a juggernaut. Plus, roll is not just op in 1 v 1. Its OP in 8 v 1 as well because well, its immune to everything whether its 1 player or 150 players. hehe