Let me guess, first try ? (with new hilt)

Great ! Thanks !!

Great one. I presume that for each attempt you're using the same rotation/priorities, so what is making the 10s difference ? It's a lot harder to see than an Infiltration parse ^^ SS, DS, FiB crits of course and MC crit ? And is your AMR really correct ? Crit rating, ... because I have some doubt about one of your relic .

I don't know if it's only for us or not, but since PTS (and now 2.8 Live), the Parsec and the Torparse dps gap between the two is quite bigger than it used to be. (for Balance) Therefore, which one is the least wrong ? Torparse dps is always higher but sometimes it's impossible to get the >1M damage timing on a dummy parse. Someone got some infos ? Otherwise I'll ask the question in the Parsec topic.

If I remember correctly, it's one action, one button. So for instance, macros buttons on keyboards are just here to use a little more your little finger .

Great, because we got too much "ideas" on this thread, it'll be easier for Devs to find what they're looking for on the forums, at least if they have something to look for ^^.

Nefra NiM Ketupa - Infiltration Shadow - Les Gardiens d'Anachore - 3587.77 http://www.torparse.com/a/654919/3/0/Overview Draxus NiM Ketupa - Infiltration Shadow - Les Gardiens d'Anachore - 2993.21 http://www.torparse.com/a/655894/21/0/Overview

Great one. How many attempts to get this one ? ^^ Crit rating correct on your AMR ? I'll have to be very patient . And yeah buff us plz .

As Evolixe said. Some bosses decide for you, others are like you want. But you'll only take an advantage of a spec if you really play it well, otherwise it's best to get your "easiest" spec. We're supposed to get a buff soon, if it's only on one spec, the choice will be clearer ^^. @Evolixe I thought you were an Infiltration-only freak .

Devs ignored everything since 2012 for PvE dps assassin, and we don't know why they acknowledged it two weeks ago. Normally every top parser feel the same way, that's why they're at the top . I understand what you say with outliers in bosses but these are game breaking issues, if you want to do the right analogy take the min parses (<3300dps), I can provide you with that '^^. About you Torparse idea, it can be great but there is a problem, there is not enough shadow/assassin samples ;(. Shadows/assassin parses showed on Torparse are not all outliers. (So not enough metrics < feeling LOL.) I got a similar idea, but it was to do a "X parses in a row leaderboards" to see gap, min, max, avg of each class. But as a pure single target class (even more with Deception), it's too obvious we got a problem when you see a 1M dummy parse. About the Devs, I anticipate what they'll think about a complaint of Force Regen => QoL, so they'll just give us more Force. (Because they won't see your Maths in the question ^^, perhaps they'll even think it's a feeling complaint ) When you talk about 3 Saber Strike in a row, I think you mix with Madness, in Deception it doesn't happen. About Madness/Balance, even if I like to play it, I don't care, they'll hardly do worse than 2.0 changes. How do you imagine the "new" Deception rotation if they'd buff our dps in a Force Regen perspective ? The result, that's what I fear.

/// PvE talk (mostly Deception with some Infiltration terms ^^) /// Please brainpsyk and Xinika read this message . So you found an issue with Force Regen because you specifically searched it. If you're mocking the "feeling" word because of me (I said Feeling > Maths), I think there is a misunderstanding. I was more talking about instinct to play the Deception spec, not to understand the Force Regen from a analysis point of view. In fact I'll say : Instinct (experience) > understanding of Force Regen by Maths for => QoL and so to actually play the spec. And when you play Deception, the Force Regen actions you activate yourself (!= proc) are simple to manage because it's pretty linear for a 5 minutes fight. Linear from a player point of view in full action and so predictable and manageable not linear in a Maths simulation way, because yes indeed, you could have Maths on your side but it's getting too far from the original purpose of this topic and the problems players are "feeling" (I know you like that word) when they play Deception. You don't have to admit you're wrong, and if you're right, you're missing something. I'll explain. We're not here to reinvent the class and I'm sure you can prove by Maths that Devs have done some terrible things . I personally always said since 2.0 that this spec has a conflictual nature because let's be realistic, when you play Deception in PvE you're in fact doing PvE content with a PvP spec. You have to do some sacrifices when you play it, like not using Project during 1 GCD because FB@3stacks, 3 CS/VS because too much Force or to decide if you wait several seconds the end of Force Potency CD before using Force Cloak, and you gave yourself plenty of examples of those situations. Deception is a situational spec because it has been thought like a PvP spec and because of that your Maths will show you that Force consumption and Force Regen (not the same thing) are "random". You can't use all the potential dps we got because it's PvP oriented, so to raise our dps we have to look elsewhere and yeah that's sad, but they'll never make so much changes to a class. But that's the way you play it and it's the way most enjoy it, it's ******* random . And of all the randomnesses, Force Regen one is irrelevant, I'll explain my PoV soon in this message. You're using top Infiltration parse, which one ? If you're talking about the parses above 3600, those are anomalies, statistical anomalies (not probabilistic anomalies). I guess you know that in science experiments you have to dismiss the max and the min to get a global theory. I'm not saying you can't use them at all, but you can't use them as a reference. (references != records) There is so much discussion right now that most people forget the main problem with dps assassin in PvE. It's not RNG proc or whatever, it's our DPS (sustained damage) compared to other classes. And we know it has to be our expectation/logic because it's the words Devs used to acknowledge the issue. RNG this, randomness that, these are potential solutions but Devs have surely their own ideas to resolve this, and talking Force Regen randomness in our official contact with Devs has a great risk to be interpreted like a QoL complaint and not as a DPS solution (no matter the ideas we got it's their job). And since this is a game, enjoyment and skill have to be above any QoL concerns, we finally got a chance to be more PvE-friendly, it's not the time to whine about something totally manageable and that most of good assassins enjoy. I agree sometimes QoL can destruct enjoyment but it's not the case with Force Regen. Personally I don't want to play a class that can be played with a 5 minutes macro . We need two things : - Raise our average dps (~3450) (average from good players not from average players ^^) - Raise our max output (~3600) If Devs raise average dps there is a pretty good chance that the max output will be raised too. But if you try to begin in the other way, you'll the squeeze out dps for the max output but the average won't be raised as much. Pure dps loss (or gain) due to RNG, my point of view, from the most influential to the lesser : (From my magical nonmathematical feeling ) - Crit RNG - Proc RNG - Proc and Crit synergy/timing (doing the crit at the best time, relic proc power/mstat boost(s) while having everything stacking and proccing at max speed) - Proc and Force reserve timing - Pure Force Regen (more Force = more spamming without gaining stacks) With average dps parses samples, I don't think Force Regen is a main concern. If you change just the Force Regen system, we'll get an even more conflictual rotation. And if you're telling me they have to change procs, ... it's too much to do. I honestly think most players will be happy with more dps output without touching too much the current Deception rotation/gameplay. Again the purpose of this topic is to ask questions to Devs, we can cheat a bit by complaining, but we can't give them ideas and certainly not when it risks to trigger the wrong switch in their mind. (QoL != dps) I'm not here to say you're wrong in your Maths but I think you're a bit wrong with the context. Perhaps what I'm saying is total bs but I really fear talking Force Regen with Devs, we can at least say to them that we're happy with it . (Please don't change it !!)

I'll join Evolixe and Aelanis, there is no randomness in Force Regen for Deception in PvE. The randomness is coming of course from procs RNG, but this is not Force Regen. On 1M dummy fights, near the end (<30% life), it's normally always at the same time (chrono not health) I use Black Out, sometimes a gap of 3-5s (for a 4+min fight) but that's all. Honestly, for me Force Regen on PvE Deception is like a clockwork. Force Regen is the most predictable component in our rotation. Of course there are small windows where you have to "improvise", for instance to avoid Force stacking. (coming from bad procs again) But on a several minutes fight it all comes linear. The wrongly supposed Force Regen randomness is a consequence (procs RNG & bad diagnosis) not a cause. I don't know from where those inquiries come but I don't think their number has to be a guarantee of veracity. If we got a Force bar in this game it's because it has to be managed, if Devs change our Force Regen it'll be a spammable brainless rotation. It's not because we got some players who aren't able to manage manageable things that there is randomness somewhere . If it's not a gameplay issue it's at least a diagnosis mistake. All this is : IMHO We should at least have a debate about this, inquiries are not enough for this point. I really fear Devs get the wrong message and that the consequences will be huge for the small world of PvE Deception. For me talking Force Regen to Devs can hurt . Edit: Seems there was some discussion about that 2 pages ago, why did you already put it to OP. Do you agree with brainpsyk ? Or do you think he's right for no matter what reason ? Feeling > Maths, feeling this is what Deception is all about.

The Plz legacy , great . We should all do a renaming ^^.

It's funny to get new mechanics but : - Do they have to change now some of the future NiM DP mechanics, to keep the surprise in June, do they have enough time left to do this correctly so it won't be a cheaper NiM. - Some serious QA problem here, they're relying too much on PTS, not enough safeguards between Devs and players and between PTS and Live. Right now they're deciding if they're gonna acknowledge their error or not. It's nobody's fault I'm sure, it's just Cartel Market's money that is going in the wrong place !

Not just your perception, it is known .