Its not on high threat we need we need better migtation talents and damage(but yes you are correct, and having trubble with threat in long fights is untrue, thats becuse they slow their dps down.if they keep doing their rotations straight the will keep pulling agro 24/7. we need a talent to increase force screams damage. wich could be increase the obsorbtion of it aswell wich increases mitigation aswell, and some endurence talents would not be wrong with 3 talent that gives 9% Also crushing blow deals good damage putting it high amount of threat might be giving it to much faceroll threat, but since we are lacking insane amount of single damage buffing force scream and crushing blow would solve it. either increase its damage with like 10-20% needs testing for balance and so it not deals to much damage in pvp ofc, or keep the damage reduce the cooldown or remove it and increase ragecost. so its a rage dumper. becuse our vicious slash as rage dumper really? its gives so little threat and damage its just silly. and backhand should be replaced with something more useful, we allready got force choke talent with no channeling. also the talent wich gives force charge a stun is so not fitting the role should be in the vengence tree. replace it with something useful so to say Buff crushing blow damage wich increases our damage and threat fix talents that dont fit a tank for pve and pvp. buff force scream give us a worth ability to ragedump on(not to powerful ofc change backhand maybe? or change crushing blow?) fix our aoe threat we dont need to be as good as other tanks since i really want some tanks to shine in diffrent bosses an diffrent aspect, one can be good at aoe threat/damage have good mitigation. One can have good single target and aoe damage and ok mitigation one can have really good single target dps but low aoe threat but workable and little less mitigation than others. Yeah you get my point some pros and cons for being diffrent tanks for diffrent bosses and instances, but they should still ofcourse be able to do it, but maybe do it 10% less good than the other one, right now jugg tanks is outshined by darkness and shieldtech in any aspect, damage for single and aoe threat for single and aoe and mitigation, if u gonna say no and say you survivie well in boss fights ofc? boss fights are undertuned and thank god they are that becuse otherwise we wouldnt be able to get a group. so if they want a good content of pve(especially) they gotta make boss fights harder for hard and nightmare and make bosses hit harder on tanks, wich means they gotta fix our mitigation, and also fix the amount of health or ragetimer on bosses. wich also will need our damage to be higher becuse it will be gimp to have a juggtanks. ive done sevral threads done tickets how they could launch this talent tree without noticing the diffrence of mitigation benefits with damage, by comparing abilities and talent trees are not ok imo. anyway this should be their priority right now to fix. and yes they got alot to do atm and i overlook this due to that even. Just hope they fix it soon lets pray

ur obviously have no clue check the other talent trees what they get and check ours then check our abilities. so please dont TALK unless u got your facts straight an equally geared Darkness assasin or shieldtech will allways have more mitigation and u know what? they deal alot more damage and have more threat by far aswell not just aoe single target aswell. So please before u give me the l2p talk do some theorycrafting have u even done a spreadsheet test? please be quiet before u talk immortal jugg tanks have least mitigation. that u have killed bad asasin tanks or shield tech tanks or that they are really awful geared is not somthing that you can use as saying they are squishy. test with equally geared of all 3 and the darkness will come out 1st then shieldtech then immortal.

Will juggernought tanks still be have such a broken tanking tree? i hope that comes to priority to fix before all of this becuse how bad our talent tree in mitigation damage and threat compared to assasin and shieldtech is just ridicilous if u havnt start working on it or know how to balance it out with others just pm me and i can help you out. but please by all means do somthing about it, and no im not a noob played in a top tier guild in wow as MT. compare the pros and cons as jugg tank with other tanks we got 0, yes we got 0 pros. Please by all means do somthing about this! we are tanking in the vengence tree atm for god sake!

had to start talent im playing imperial sith warrior jugg mt in my guild to understand what talents u named haha anyway this wont change the fact that we need more single target threat, it would be if they changed backhand to this names are for imperial ofc. Furious slash, instant hits 3 swift slashes at target one at right one at left then one in chest. 25 sec cd instead of 1 min doesnt stun anymore, puts debuff on target next crushing blow(guardian slash, will hit 5% harder per -armor stack on target by yourself. also it gets some dps increase on backhand (hilt strike) the amount of AOE threat u want is ridicilous we would have 10 times better than everyone else plus we wouldnt have much of an rotation to aoe tank wich would dumb the tanking down badly. Upping aoe threat they should do but not this much. the biggest flaw is single target threat and migtation in our talents compared to others and ofc our damage aswell. i also suggested to solve single target threat and aoe threat that there is a followup talent with 2 talents that increases damage and obsorb by 10/20% and 10/20% obsorb of its effect and 50/100 % chance to deal 50% of the main targets damage split to 4 other within 5 yards of main target. Hilt strike(backhand) is really a usless tanlent both threat and damage. i would like it to be some sort of sub ability with our high tier ability talent that synergizes with it like the vengence tree.

you can tell a dps to stand at a specific location and dps if u intercede him u ownt turn the boss so u know.lets say u tank him facing a wall at 6 a clock alot dps stand at 12, one tps can stand around 4.5 a clock without getting any dmg and u can intercede then just backpedal to left somthing ish and u wont turn the boss or do any risc of cleaving try it out it works and we do it frequently in my guild.

are u doing the kite thing? where u run up the ledge where he has to run up and down? if not do it have a range dps on him jump up when he gets close dps when he runs around comes up dps then jump down rince repeat voila dead.

You are right on that point that its dumb to use it how u are forced to i interced when i tank. and some bosses u have to switch i intercede to our other tank and taunt of or charge. yes its really bad and its actually ment for pvp survivabilty. or to back up the tank as dps in pve, anyway we all know and we want em to fix the tree by swappingf those to the immortal tree wont help the 4% endurance could be 8% and give the intercede same thing. Give us the 4% deacreased damage to the tree remove cd on our crushing blow or increase its damage with around 20% and have the cd. give forcescream in tank tree above the obsorb talent a followup wich gives it 10/20% more obsorb and damage and 50/100% chance to do force scream to 4 additional targets for 50% damage 5yards inrange of main target voila you have fixed the aoe tanking and single target TPS/dps and migtation is allright. maybe not onpar with others. but atleast its a fix for now and they can start look more at it later atleast immortalspecc would be doable for now until they fix the migtation balanced out with other tank trees later.

u ignore turrets since they do silly damage, once u get to his vanish phase every groups up around eachother, and healer need to be on his toes and be good its about reactiona nd skill if ppl die its becuse the healer is bad or B ppl are REALLY bad geared, i have never wiped there due to doing it with guild only with my friend who is a good healer. But doing it pugs with bad healers will most likeley result in wipe. So stack up ontop of HK dps like madman (tank should taunt everytime he comes out of stealth and use aoe ability fast just before he comes out of vanish aswell. And use protective spells to the target that gets the debuff. Like jugg intercede and switch Guard to that specific player. Thats all there is to it GL!

yes i agree it should be equal, but often 8man is harder due to the requier better performance by each player than in a 16 man fewer dps and need to know your class better. Now i havnt tried 16 man so i dont know, but how do u know its easier to do 8man NM than 16 man NM if its first reset since u cant do both.

Ok might be true we just raid 8man since we are a small guild with only swedes and we feel its better teamplay and better jokes when fewer and know eachother alot better and u can trust eachother alot more than in big guilds. if its undertunded its sad we just did it hard it wasnt hard at all for us. NM next reset guess its just as easy as HM was for us. Is all 16man alot harder or is it just this specific one that is undertuned in 8man? and btw how do u know its undertuned if its first reset and u can only do 8man or 16 man runs? wich means u only could have done NM in 8man or 16 man...

Yes 8man is easier in some aspect the human factor of RNG and doing misstake is less easier to get 8 really good players than 16. But that doesnt mean it requiers an almost equal skill in 8man. gz and well done ignore the haters, they are just envy you for doing becuse they are stuck with some baddies on their guild in 16 man that fail to play their class correct

When it 100% removes a mechanic of a boss/gearcheck and difficulty of a boss yes it wrong thats what u dont understand. And ofc it doenst work on all bosses and thats not the point the thing is it nullifies an entire mechanic of a fight. its like lets say patchwerk in vanilla wow where u could abuse the tier 2 bugg setbonus. wich nullfied so u only had to heal one tank. u should be able to make mechanics easier with spells sure but removing a mechanic from a boss entirely ruins the fight entirely. and trust me later on when raid content should be hard and bosses that are heal heavy and swapping tanks u dont need to swap tanks u can just put up miss debuff rotation and the fights will become so easy it sad wich ruins all the effort of a good PVE fight that anyone even bad players can kill.

You are aware that that vengence/immortal specc gives more migtation than immortal specc right? read the talents before u talk please

HAHAHAHA i couldnt laught more we got least migtation TPS and DPS of all the tanks they got 29-33 more migtation talents than us in their tank tree and deal 15-25% more dps wich is tps plus they got high threat abilities with low cooldown. we are forced to play vengence when tanking to hold agro of equaly geared dps if not worse geared even. wich makes immortal tanks even more ridiculous. and no i know the rotations by the nail, ive MT in pretty well known guilds in wow, and know how to theorycraft and to put my rotation perfect more or less the threat damage and migtation is so bad compared to the other tanks its silly, we should be happy that bosses hits to little in hardmode and nightmare on tanks than they are suppose to. Immortal tree and jugg tanking tree is broken PERIOD.

First of there is other classes with similar debuff like sniper, it was an example, also in 16 man raids u can have alot more marauders than than in 8man. and he dont go to frenzy until every 1min or so, wich means u got a rotation for each. Sniper Marauder ops dps sith inq dps sith inq healer bh merc healer jugg tank jugg tank do u get it now? u can easly do a rotation on it. Please get facts before trolling on forum please