Ques never pop and when they do it is a faceroll unless 1 of 3 or so teams is also queing. Then it can be a bit of fun, but only a bit. Ranked wzs seem to be who has more pyrotechs will win lately.

They are indeed, useless. I laugh at them everytime I see one since I can interrupt everything they could hope to do to me in wzs. Pyro mercs are decent, but nowhere near the threat of a pt pyro. I only take a merc healer, if he's really good, if none of my op/sorc buddies are on. What a waste of a class!

I don't understand the complaints. Learn what their defensive cds are and how to deal with them and you will realize they're not op. I don't play either. Don't even have them as an alt. Yes, they are a pain in the butt to kill and I could see an adjustment to a def cd or two, but they are not "op". Powertechs on the other hand... that class is so easy to maximize damage it's ridiculous.

Marks should go away when you die. Having them persist through death is ridiculous.

Thanks, man. I'll take what I can get. Really trying to figure out if there's stuff I need to change or if it is flawed logic of guildies that stops me from being a tank in WZs.

They get a much lower armor reduction than the jugs due to light armor and the recent nerf.

I'm still waiting for a vid of a high level team actually using a jug tank. I have yet to see it on my server.

I am aware of that, but when the Assassins are surviving just as well on the team as my jug, the tie breaker is going to be dps every time and we are the clear loser in that category. Maybe we'll start to see games where the weaker passive mitigation becomes an issue, but right now it isn't. The only factor we are concerned with is how fast we can burn down the other teams healers. All our close matches turn into a dps race. Whichever team has a healer die first is going to lose. The dps gained by Assassins is > the extra dps prevented by jugs.

Keeping themselves alive is what keeps the node for you. Any tank is gong to be keeping their team alive. The whole argument people are making about jugs is that they have greater survivable to stay alive while your team is respawning and I am saying that Assassins have no problem doing that either. The amount of protection done is finite. As long as your tank is staying alive with guard up, they are putting out pretty comparable numbers of protection. No one is arguing that jugs aren't amazing for huttball. It's the other 3 warzones I'm concerned about. Our best dps are pyros, rage juggies, and snipers. They normally put out 500k dps, often hit 600k, and have gone over 700k quite a bit. In a 500k game, our tankassin will usually get 350k dmg, 150k prot while the jug gets 200k dmg 175k prot. I know a lot of that damage is fluff, but if they are staying alive to guard people, you are of course going to take the better dps.

I can appreciate the argument that jug tanks have some fantastic survivability, but not to the extent that anyone on my server is interested in dropping an Assassin to pick one up. An Assassin in the right hands is going to take less damage because they have force speed to kite/los and stealth. They can't soak up the damage that a jug can, but they don't need to. Also, force shroud beats saber word any day of the week imo. I'd rather take full damage from white attacks than 0 white/25% from yellow. Let's also not forget that dead men do no dps. I may have more stuns and be able to slow damage more effectively, but they are also focusing targets slower due to the dps loss. If you have two players that can tank well with their respective classes, why wouldn't you take the Assassin who can generate twice as much dps? Perhaps if they consolidated the tanking talents to a single tree, things would be different but no matter how well I play, my guild has decided they will be taking the assassins to tank first.

Except one of those guys has to stay at the node which puts you at 3.5 dps instead of 4.

I just checked the past 3 months of Q&A and the last 10 pages of yellow posts for keyword guard and found nothing about this. I know for a fact that the defensive stats don't apply. If you can find it, I would appreciate but I really don't think the armor mitigation applies. Currently running http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrhozZ0MZfrMRMhddM.2. I also tried http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrhdkzMZZfrMRMhzzM.2 now that they fixed the scaling on sonic barrier, but I didn't notice much of a difference and my ability to burst down a target went out the window. My attack sequence is Charge > Sundering Assault / Smash to get 4 stacks of armor debuff > impale > force scream > ravage. If I have the buff from impale, force scream goes ahead of it.

My math was off on the gcd. Somehow I had it in my head with the talented .5 gcd. Maybe it's a bigger impact than I was thinking I still feel like dead weight on any game but huttball as a tank, however. I still feel that the extra guard by bringing 2 half-tank sins is far more beneficial than having 1 "real" tank because you can keep both healers guarded. With damage as low as it is, I feel like we might as well just go up to backhand in immortal. We're not doing any damage anyway, might as well add that other stun. Also, I'm pretty sure that guarded damage is bypassing the armor reduction in addition to our other passive defenses, so it's more than just pyros that get to ignore it. Jugs are simply not enough of a threat to make people actually target us. We're more of an annoyance.

I am not arguing that snares are ineffective. I am saying that the talent is meaningless because it's easy to keep them snared all the time either way. 9 seconds is 18 gcds. who cares if I have 1 less to keep people snared. A dps jug in tank stance is squishier than a tankassin. The best dps in the game bypases your passive defenses and without invincible I am focused down significantly faster than the assassins when I am carrying the ball in huttball.

Well I should hope that a dps spec can out dps a tank. No one is arguing that dps jugs aren't viable. In fact, a well-played rage juggie can put out some of the top numbers. I am talking about a tank spec which means at least 11 points in the immortal tree. Running tank stance without invincible makes you extremely squishy compared to the assassin. You can throw out a guard and help the healers a bit, but you are by no means a tank. Also, Assassin damage may be fluff but it still needs to be healed which taxes the healers. I would also still argue that the talent for chilling scream is pretty minimal in terms of impact. Yes, I spec into it if I am in that tree because there is nothing better, but the effect lasts 9 seconds so blowing 1 out of my 18 gcds during that time is not a big deal at all nor is the rage requirement. It's nice to spam it on void stars after the 1st door, but beyond that it seems pretty inconsequential. As far as seeing jug tanks on 2k+ teams, do you have any videos or a stream I can check out? I want to be wrong about this, but in the meantime I feel forced to spec rage or I am gimping my team.