Rationalize it however you want to, that really is not my problem.

In no way did I "talk down" to you.

In other words: - no actual rebuttal - no actual counter argument - no actual ability to contradict evidence that clearly underscores your inability to prove anything contrary to what I said Semantics isn't a defense, now put it up since the burden of proof is on you. The part that really cracks me up is how defensive you're getting over being called out here on being wrong.

If you own the novel, you clearly didn't read it, see as how the relevant excerpts were at the very top of the post you attempted to poison the well on when I put it out there. You were replying to my post, you clearly can not follow the context; Starkiller in both mediums accelerates the velocity of the falling Star Destroyer. So in a nutshell it doesn't matter if we are talking about the game distinctly or the novel/comic adaptions, you were wrong on both ends. This is your initial claim: "Well, he didn't so much as bring it down. He moved it slightly. Altered its trajectory, really. It was coming down anyway." Textbook example of an attempt to discredit and downplay a feat. Both the game, novel, and comic versions show Starkiller doing more then just altering its course, he completely altered its descent and increased its velocity, which is a far cry from "He moved it slightly." Your own wording defeats your current claim. In a nutshell, you are disregarding what you said and claiming the opposite of how the feat worked with Starkiller moving the Star Destroyer to terminal velocity because he did MORE then just "slightly move it". That simple.

I'm not going to repeat this ad naseum back and forth with you, the post I put out and your inability to actually do more then spout a one-liner, imply I somehow made a personal attack on you for giving a reply that trounced your claim about Starkiller's TK feat and somehow are still trying to poison the well with this attitude you have isn't really indicative of good debater. So you can keep trying to get the last word in, I already accepted your concession. Have good night. >"even though you're wrong" >says this without actually explaining how or why what I posted was wrong with three posts filled with one-line responses

Whatever rocks your boat

I'll just chalk that up as a concession then. Edit: No, just a friend of Chaos.

http://i.imgur.com/dtty7DR.png http://i.imgur.com/rQflAQw.png http://i.imgur.com/cwaF7AU.png http://i.imgur.com/B5wwvsJ.png http://i.imgur.com/zCuvqgD.png http://i.imgur.com/8WN5TB7.png http://i.imgur.com/a8T1D0L.png ^how events panned out in the canon novelization Anyway... http://youtu.be/edK6XE4PE1I?t=15s - Where the ship starts it's descent from How high it was in the sky would lead to it reaching speeds near terminal velocity near impacting the planet Or, you know, the moment Starkiller forces it to the ground by altering it's trajectory Terminal velocity for something as massive as an ISD is well into hypersonic http://youtu.be/edK6XE4PE1I?t=3m48s - Notice how slow its moving vertically before Marek finally gathers the energy to force it down http://youtu.be/edK6XE4PE1I?t=3m54s - Notice how here, when he finally does start to force it down, it appears to accelerate to speeds 2-3 times greater than its original free fall. Could be a bit more, could be a bit less. I'm just kind of eyeballing it. Here's the thing though? You know what kinetic energy is? Kinetic Energy = 0.5 mass (velocity squared) Now, you're claiming because, due to previously falling, that makes the feat much less impressive? That's either disingenuous or you're just simply unaware Why? Let's plug in some hypothetical numbers to illustrate how energetic Galen Marek's TK would be compared to the initial Free Falling value Let's say we have a mass of 2 kg falling at a speed of 2 m/s before impact? Initial KE = 0.5(2) (2)^2 = 4 joules Now, let's say the speed was instantly increased to about 2 times it's former speed by something outside the original system contributing some energy The speed here would be 4 m/s btw. Mass is still 2 kg. 2x Speed KE = 0.5(2) (4)^2 = 16 joules An increase in overall energy by about 4 times the original amount. The factor outside the original system contributed about 3/4th the final energy value. If you're going to cite some form of physics to discredit how impressive a feat is? Actually bother knowing how it effects the feats before bringing it up trying to debunk it.

No one is talking about Disney canon, we're talking about EU/Legends continuity. And everything Vitiate has done has been surpassed by Sidious. That's a nice theory, too bad it does not hold water for any number of reasons: 1.) All source books, guides, and lore has established as powerful as Yoda is, as a pure duelist and swordsmen he is inferior to Windu 2.) Sidious vs Windu started as a 1 vs 4 match which included Agen Kolar, Sasee Tinn, and Kit Fisto; those three said Jedi Masters in question have been established multiple times as equals if not superior to Anakin and Obi-Wan in terms of skill and are stated to be among the "finest swordsmen" in the Jedi Order under Windu and Yoda 3.) Even with said advantage in numbers and having several high-ranking swordsmen including Kit Fisto who is Obi-Wan's equal, they were cut down in mere moments and Fisto lasted the longest; ergo Obi-Wan would've died within moments of engaging Sidious even with Yoda there 4.) Yoda in the RoTS novelization even admitted he lost the fight before it started, imagine how much worse he would've fared if he had to be waste time and energy protecting Obi-Wan while engaging Sidious 5.) Anakin would still be alive, not-crippled, at full power and his potential to surpass Yoda and Sidious would not be compromised. Which means he would be left alone to develop his powers as Sidious' apprentice and Obi-Wan would be dead, with the possibility of Yoda as well Nah, really not seeing that happening. Same Revan got curbstomped by Vitiate, the same Vitiate who ran into a lightsaber wielded by the Hero of Tython. You aren't exactly in the position to criticize Sidious for being thrown down a reactor's shaft while he's focusing all his attention and power on killing and torturing Luke when a 2.5 meter tall cyborg bodily lifts him while he's defenseless.

Sidious had to get a crippled Plagueis drunk, pass out, and murder him in his sleep to step out of his master's shadow in terms of power. Sidious performed the greatest galactic coup, destroyed the Jedi Order, and swung the pendulum of the Force's alignment back to the dark side for decades with the Jedi Purge and toppling of the Galactic Republic. He played both sides of the Clone Wars, had numerous Jedi defect, become KIA or MIA in the war, and the rest purged. Sidious for all his power before the establishment of the Empire and Jedi Purge, in the twilight of the Clone Wars, had to use more of his planning, cunning, and teachings to manipulate the Jedi and Republic into folding like a house of cards. He would have never taken on in terms of physical ability Yoda, Windu, the rest of the High Council, and the entirety of the Jedi Order in face to face combat and survived. So as much as Palpatine is stated to be the greatest duelist, lightsaber master, sorcerer, and powerful for the Sith, he really thrived more because of his ability to be smart. There is a reason why he's stated to be an amalgamation of Stalin, Napoleon, and Julius Caesar. Because as great as his martial skills are, his greater still in his ability to manipulate through politics and deception his standing as the "greatest Sith Lord in history".

Marr is a progressive reformist, much like Malgus and the Inquisitor (or at least that's how I treat my neutral SI on the Dark Council). He wants to see the Empire united, strengthened by cooperation, and infighting as well as political bickering stopped between Dark Council members. I really really doubt he would have issues with a Wrath or fellow Councilor preferring to be morally uncorrupted.

EU/Legends is its own canon. Much like how Ultimate Earth/universe is to 616 Earth in Marvel comics. Its still canon, just separated into a separate continuity. Aside from the very small portion of the SWTOR, its as no more part of the "reboot" canon/Disney continuity anymore then the Post-RoTJ content. I don't know why people persist in believing SWTOR, and KoTOR I/II will or would be an exception, iconic stories and adult books like Heir to the Empire, the New Jedi Order series, Rouge/Wraith Squadron series, and almost anything else involving the likes of Zahn, Stover, and Luceno as well as Alliston have written were put aside. CW micro-series was brushed and labeled non-canon even before all this mixing up, guys accept it. I'll repeat: Expanded Universe aka "Legends" with the Disney reboot is its own separate continuity, self-regulated and self-contained; all established novels, comics, games, TV shows, and anything else forms it nucleus. Disney canon so far is established as: The Clone Wars (CGI) series, Original Trilogy films, Prequel Trilogy films, forthcoming Sequel Trilogy, official film novelizations (Stover's RoTS novel in particular stands out) and associated spin-offs, and the Rebels CGI series along with the three new novels; Tarkin, Heir to the Jedi, and the forthcoming Vos/Ventress book by JJM.

Scion of Terror is an explicit reference to the Warrior's position as Emperor's Wrath; as a bloody enforcer and executioner , a member yes in a sense. A part of the Dread Masters battle-mind and order itself? Not really the same. What you're pushing here is an argument laid on the ground work of semantics. They explicitly reference Styrak replacement for the Inquisitor, not the Warrior. Pretty telling.

Vader doesn't hold a candle's light in terms of deception or planning to Exar Kun. I don't even see how this an apt comparison at all. Entire premise with the Inquisitor's storyline anyway is manipulating assets, power bases, and resources to survive and thrive against more powerful enemies. Nox with Pyron's aid exposed Thanaton stepping even beyond the boundaries of the rules of the Kaggath by sabotaging the Empire's war effort on Corellia just to kill his rival. I agree the Wrath isn't an idiot or simple brute, but I wouldn't put him on equal terms with Darth Nox in terms of cunning. After all, Inquisitor can even manipulate the emotions of a seasoned famed Jedi Master like Nomar Organa for his lover Lady Rist, to secure access to Elysium and turn a gifted Jedi to his own power base on Taris. I would rank Inquisitor above the Warrior in terms of cunning and manipulation.

It isn't just George Lucas. KJA, Kennedy, Veitch, and numerous other editors at Dark Horse, Bantam Books, and Del Rey Books have confirmed over and over again that Palpatine is the ultimate big bad. Exar Kun came close at very near second place until the creation and reveal of characters like Vitiate/Sith Emperor and Darth Caedus. When asked who was stronger, KJA and Veitch both answered when tasked with the question of comparing power in the Force between Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, and Palpatine they answered Palpatine is the greatest Sith Lord in history. Period. Exar Kun was citied as the most powerful and greatest Dark Lord of the Sith prior to Palpatine and Sadow was called the most powerful Sith of his era. Throughout the addition of adding newer big bad antagonists in the EU lore and continuity, Palpatine/Sidious has always straddled at the top of the food chain. And quite frankly its nothing to be ashamed of. Exar Kun is no slouch either, invented the saberstaff, was a master of Jar'Kai and Niman styles, could slay a giant Sithspawn with a casual blast of dark side energy blasts, freeze hundreds of thousands of Republican senators and delegates with his sorcery, and even pulled a Nihilus on the Massassai people and survived as a spirit the Wall of Light holocaust that devastated Yavin 4 1400 years prior to the current events in TOR. Vitiate isn't lacking in feats either. But its just solidified both by Sidious own showings, feats, and powers he stands at the top. And the fact many different writers and authors and editors have echoed and repeated this line of thinking consistently is a good thing more then anything else. For example: KoTOR II introduced the concept of Force Draining (even though it already existed in a more exotic form more then half a decade earlier from Tales of the Jedi comics) and Nihilus eating worlds heavy with the Force. In the late 90s we had already had Palpatine munching on Byss, turning it into a dark side nexus and feasting on the 20 billion inhabitants he put into a mental coma. The feats are always there.