Regardless of the veiled, shady reasoning behind it, the end result consistently remains the same. Equal representation is being denied to a group of people. The motivation, the reasoning, are of no consequence whatsoever. Equality is very infrequently easy, or cost effective, but that doesn't justify not granting it. If someone is doing a morally wrong thing, frankly, I don't give a good goddamn what the reason behind it is. The fact that what is being done here is morally wrong is reason enough for myself and many other of my colleagues to raise serious concerns. About the positions of this company regarding fair and equal treatment of groups, about this company's stance against discrimination, and most importantly, about this company's ethical policies. Specifically on promising a feature to a group of paying customers, and then failing to deliver said feature over an entire year. And yes, their silence, their shadiness, their deletion of Tweets, and their misdirection have all indirectly supported business practices which can be considered... unethical, at best. I'm sorry, but I'm not generally fond of the idea of giving my money to companies that behave in such a way. If they're willing to lie about something like SGR's (which, as I've mentioned, they have already taken the press fallout for because of the statements made at launch) then... what else would they be willing to lie to their customers about? It is an atrocious business move on the part of a company to lie to paying customers, and frankly, whoever orchestrated this cloak-and-dagger silence and misdirection campaign should be ashamed of themselves. And you, SithKoriandr. I've explained a couple of times what consistent negative arguments do to our cause. You're indirectly screwing us over. By repeatedly fighting us. I don't know why you do it. I don't know why you want to screw us over so badly. But whether you realize it or not, your crusade against SGR is likely doing just that. Odds are I'm betting people like you are a big part of why we haven't gotten what we want. Because some incompetent financial analyst at EA was lurking the boards one day and saw posts like yours, seemingly supportive of our cause but insisting, repeatedly, against all opposition and reason presented to you, that there is no possible way that SGR's could ever be cost effective ever, and as such, we would never get them. Said analyst takes it higher up, suits decide that you may have something there, and we're ****ed. For good. Please, for the love of all that is holy, just shut up. I don't care what your reason is. I don't care how good your logic is. I'm tired of seemingly well-meaning people trying to stonewall us, for no apparent reason whatsoever. Because whether you know it, or believe it, you may very well be stonewalling us WAY more successfully than you think. And the fact that our cause is being destroyed from within this very thread, is honestly, very hurtful and insulting to me. Please. Stop. Leave us alone. Odds are they have the V/O assets already recorded, they're just waiting for some gods-unknown reason to make it happen. So please. Just leave us alone and let it happen.

What bugs me the most about this... is the supposition that EA/BioWare somehow fears this content. That they are holding off on announcing it or discussing it out of fear. Fear of... what? Bad press? They've already been through all that. Back at launch, the SWTOR devs were all like, yeah, SGR's are gonna be in this game, deal with it. And the conservative media groups, family groups, lobbyists, etc. blasted them for it. They've already been hit for it. Worst case scenario... is what, exactly? A year after launch, they announce SGR, and the conservatives go, 'okay, well, you already said you were gonna, and we already complained about it, which clearly didn't stop you, so there's not a whole hell of a lot else we can do'. I mean, what exactly is EA/BW supposedly so afraid of? It's certainly not going to hurt sales or anything. At launch, everybody knew about BW's plans for SGR's. (And if you didn't know, what rock did you live under? Did you not read anything about the game, like, at all? Seriously?) Guess what? They bought the game anyway. SWTOR had amazing box sales for an MMO launch, comparatively speaking of course. People, in general, seem to care a lot less that SGR's are planned, than they care that said SGR's aren't in yet. Comparatively, I see a lot less complaints about "gays in space" than I see requests for them. Which indicates to me that the population asking is higher. Maybe the population campaigning against SGR's is censored. Maybe we're just a really vocal minority. I'm not dismissing the possibility, however, I do hold the firm opinion that bigotry deserves to be censored. You don't have the right to campaign against equality, I'm sorry. And speaking more specifically on that to DarthRamette, I still don't understand why you don't want SGR's, I really don't. You've seen all of the arguments for it, you're obviously intellectual enough to understand them, and yet you continue to refuse them. Your counter arguments have generally been well-phrased, but... At this point, you just come across as a petulant child stamping her foot because you didn't get what you wanted. "NO I DON'T WANT THEM, I DON'T CARE WHAT THE REASON IS." My question is... why? We're not asking you to present your argument because it's a requirement, we just... don't understand. Most people generally want clarification when presented with something they don't understand. My appeal to you, DarthRamette, is simple. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. Much like in real life, it really doesn't. People are out there, right now, being gay in the privacy of their own homes. You don't have to see it. In SWTOR, people would be off being gay in their starships. You don't have to see it. It doesn't affect you. This won't be forced on you. It's yet another game feature like PvP or space battles, that you can choose to participate in, or choose to avoid, as per your preference. It's completely up to you. People are still going to be gay, SGR's or no. There's some guy emoting kisses to Corso somewhere, I guarantee it. But... guess what? It doesn't affect you. OGR's don't affect you. There's no indication of which companion a player is romancing. So why, why, do you continue to rail against a feature that you personally don't like, when it won't affect you and you'll never have to see it? I honestly don't understand why you would be willing to deny equality to an entire group of people just because you personally don't like it.

Just wanted to pop in and offer my support. I post very, very infrequently due to a myriad of personal reasons too varied to describe here. However, I've been a long-time lurker on these forums ever since early access. SGR is the one feature that this game lacks in providing me, personally, with a rich and satisfying entertainment experience. I love the game, the storyline, the writing, the gameplay, everything. Free to Play, although I first feared it would ruin my gameplay, actually turned out to add a whole lot to it, adding a variety of exciting new stuff I can do. Like collect cool looking blasters, and sell Crime Lord Packs on the GTN, and even buy some of those elusive Legacy perks that I was always too lazy to farm the credits for (seeing as how I was generally always busy alt-ing). But when I see people describe how they log in, stare at their character list, and go, can't level that character because the SGR option is my first companion, can't level that character because she's on the planet in which she meets SGR option, etc. etc.... I feel that pain. That's been my experience from day one. Like, I want to play a Bounty Hunter real bad. I played a male one, and the gameplay of the class is basically the most fun thing ever, but... Mako's the first SGR companion for a femBH and... if I level even one level I might miss something. Sucks having to leave all the characters I really really want to play at level one, and being stuck with an Assassin/Shadow instead (because FemConsulars get their SGR option the latest out of all classes). Don't get me wrong, my Shadow is pretty fun too, but... Dammit I want to play my BH. Well anyways, just know that you've had a silent voice of support here from day one. Admittedly, that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot, and considering the herculean efforts some of you have gone to in the name of this cause... well, having a guy pop in and say "I read your thread once" can't be all that compelling, but... I'm in the same boat as many of you. I'm just... generally too lazy to log off of my video games or pause my TV shows to type something out to all of you. I e-mailed GLAAD with markcymru's reply, copy-pasted and altered appropriately (blatantly unoriginal, yes, but that's where that laziness comes in). I... am truly humbled and inspired by the level of efforts that many of you have put forth in the pursuit of this content. Not only because I want to be able to play a girl that kisses a girl in a video game, but... the implications for real-world equality here. I honestly feel like this is some... Martin Luther King Jr. type stuff we're dealing with here. I am honored to have been in the presence of such inspiring, courageous people. Most notably, although I love a lot of you, I have to give special mention to Uluain. That guy... is my hero. Not only is he unflinchingly vocal in his pursuit of equal rights, which is commendable by itself, and displays tremendous courage and depth of character... but the guy's mastery of the English language is second-to-none. That guy... can turn a phrase. Hats off to you, Uluain. I wish each and every one of you the very best.

Lol, that made my day. Thank you. And you're very welcome for the tip.

Massively's actually probably a pretty good call. Specifically, I'd email Larry Everett. Or Tweet him @Shaddoe. He writes a SWTOR dedicated column every week, and cohosts an Old Republic show on Gamebreaker. I think that coverage would be a really good thing for us, and from what I know about Mr. Everett, I think he'd be sympathetic to our cause. He's a heavy RP'er, so just toss something in there about how the persistent lack of SGR's is preventing the LGBT community from RP'ing the way they want to. I think Larry and the folks at Gamebreaker, like Gary Gannon, would definitely cover this. And having them discussing the treatment of this content live on The Old Republic show would be good. They're known for asking... uncomfortable questions, to say the least.

Ah, excellent answer, thanks for that. Okay, to go a bit deeper, if you can. But since you're tired, maybe not until tomorrow. I was unaware of Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr, but that's a good example. I was thinking of putting my particular character in the New Republic timeline, simply because that's just easier. Luke Skywalker already lets his Jedi trainees get married, etc. So it would be a lot easier to craft a character within that timeline, since all of the things he would do would be a bit more acceptable. However, what I *really* want to do, is put my character in the Old Republic timeline. Maybe as a backstory within the events of SW:TOR, or maybe after the events of SW:TOR, not sure. However, there doesn't seem to be as much of a canonical precedent for that. My character would definitely have a wife. And he'd ride the Dark Side. I envision a character that teaches much the same way that Kyle Katarn does, that the powers themselves aren't evil, that it is how you use them. My character would be a stereotypical good guy in every single aspect. I envision him in SW:TOR, and he would make every single decision presented to him in the Light Side way, donating credits to starving children, defending the weak. He'd never slaughter innocents, or strike down an unarmed opponent. But at the same time, he wouldn't shut off all emotion like the Jedi do. He would embrace love, like I said, I imagine he'd have a wife. And he'd definitely embrace anger, rage, and aggression. But rather than using it recklessly, against everyone, he'd use it as a weapon against the enemies of the Republic. He'd like, get mad at a Sith Lord he was fighting, and aggressively beat him down. I envision a very passionate Jedi, that is definitely a good guy, but does things that the Jedi Order forbids and fears. I just can't see putting a character like that in the Old Republic timeline. He'd probably get kicked out of the Jedi Order, or have the Force stripped from him, or even be put to death. And I don't want that for this character. I figure if Mace Windu made it on the Jedi Council despite using Vaapad and riding the Dark Side, I don't see why my character (he remains unnamed because I haven't found a good name) couldn't do those things. I dunno, I like the Old Republic timeline better, I just don't think that my character would be able to canonically survive. And I wouldn't be able to have my character use Vaapad in the Old Republic timeline as well. I'm a huge Vaapad fan and I think that the Vaapad discipline would be important to a character that uses Dark Side aspects, because it would give him the self-control needed not to fall completely. I think there may be some way to imply that my character uses something similar to Vaapad, without using Vaapad itself.

Just have a couple of random lore questions for those very knowledgeable about such things. Firstly, about lightsaber forms. I've been reading Wookieepedia a bit lately, and the lightsaber forms sections there. I'm a bit confused about dual-blade lightsaber forms. The Niman/Jar'Kai page implies that to be effective in dual-wield lightsaber combat, you pretty much end up using Niman/Jar'Kai. But in SW:TOR, the Sentinel class (which dual-wields) uses Ataru, Juyo, and Shii-Cho. So can you apply a specific lightsaber form to dual-wield in the lore? Specifically, I'm wondering about the viability of a dual-wield version of Vaapad. Mace Windu clearly designed Vaapad around the use of a single blade, however I'm wondering if it would be acceptable in the lore for there to be a Vaapad user that dual wields. And is good at it. (And no, this is not an "I want to see Vaapad in SW:TOR" thing, I understand that Vaapad hadn't been created until Mace Windu invented it, and cannot be in SW:TOR.) The second question I have is, is there any precedent in the lore for a Jedi, a member of the Order, to use Force Lightning? I've seen that it's strongly implied in SW:TOR and elsewhere that Force Lightning is a strictly Dark Side power, and obviously, if you're using Dark Side, then the Jedi Order isn't going to look kindly on that. I'm just wondering if there have been any Jedi that used Force Lightning and weren't Dark Side, and the Jedi Order were cool with them and didn't kick them out or anything. In case you're wondering why I'm asking this, I'm trying to create a character for Extended Universe, to use in fanfictions and such. Probably New Republic era. I'm hoping to be able to create a firm Light Side Jedi, a respected Master of the Order, that dual wields in the Vaapad style and uses Force Lightning and Force Choke on occasion. I'm just hesitant to craft this character without knowing that there would be a precedent in the lore for those things to be acceptable.

Hi everyone, I just wanted to take a moment to draw your attention to my blog post about SW:TOR. The link will lead you to that specific post: http://magusgothica.livejournal.com/2128.html In this blog, I've outlined some answers to some common questions I've seen asked frequently on in-game chat, as well as on forums. I hope that some of you read it and find it helpful. I've enabled comments to everyone, including anonymous people, so you don't even have to have a LiveJournal account to comment on this posting. You can also feel free to read my other postings. I can't promise you'll like all the content, and there isn't much yet, but I do try to keep it updated. I don't always post about games, but I am a huge gamer, so some of my posts will be gaming related. And most of them will probably be about TOR, I've spent a lot of time on it recently. And if it ends up being anything like my WoW habits, I'll be spending a lot of time on it for the next few years. I'd also like to take the opportunity to invite players on Wall of Light West Coast PVE to add me to their friends list. Feel free to ask me questions any time, I really don't mind, and I will answer what I can. Accus - Jedi Sentinel Jaret - Jedi Shadow Garrad - Gunslinger Vorthik - Vanguard I may not be willing to help you physically, if I'm focusing on leveling. I'm unlikely to be willing to abandon my questing on Taris just to help you find a datacron on Tython. But just verbal questions? Feel free, if I'm on, I'm available to answer questions and more than willing to help.