Christ.... it reminds me of the time when blizz started reworking the talent trees at the end of BC to WoTlK and they asked the community to come up with questions to help revamp the skills talents and what changes the class needs. Mage forums got set ablazed when there was a question about "can mages get pants instead of robes/skirts" (someone asked ghost crawler that)to a point that blue post started lighting up people to stop cursing so much in the forums. You cant blame people to get upset at such things when we got more pressing matters to worry about like nerfing of skills and talents. More on point I do agree I loved the giggles would love them to return...

I agree 100% and i cant make up my mind eather....

I see your point and if its true then 0/33/8 have a better gain in pvp to kill someone and get back in the shadows in 1 swift stroke but i wish i could do some solid test with numbers.... Depend on the target the armor mitigated vary but my dmg is spread into more than just one ability with a high rate proc. But your right it gives better all around dmg while chain shock gives heavy burst... for pvp swift kills. thx for all the feed back people it really help me out.

ok i see what your saying, its a matter of seeing if facts are facts and no one but Bioware can tell us at this point and because some of us played other MMO with the similar setup and we cant tell the status with armor pen falling to just melee hits and SPELL effects, Because if that is true armor pen does not affect shocks and force abilites.... which is a shame and the -9% armor pen is uselss... i was thinking it gives you a FALT armor penetration long as you have surging charge active so its in effect to the player and affect anything its hits with -9% armor to any target, but i could be wrong as the tooltips dont give us more details on its effects. But reason i said its not worth it becuase if u get 2 VS-VS-Shock rotation off- thats -9% armor pen+6% to VS+9% to surge charge dmg in your favor vs u getting off a pair of shock thats deals -50%dmg to the shock before it. so you see why am confused on it. If the armor pen does not affect force shock then yes chain shock carries its weight. But coming from a guy who played a rogue for so damn long i never turn down Armor Penetration but armor pen does not affect spells in WoW i hope thats not the case here cos we use force abilites so much and depend on it....

I cant understand why in gods name deception assassins pick chian shock over 9% armor pen and +6% dmg to saber skills... here are the 2 builds for pvp. Common spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZhGrRkhrbtzZf0c.1 and my spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0cZhGMRkhrbtzZM.1 now why would i forsake the chance to get armor pent to all my abilities + dmg to skills for a second shock that deals -50% dmg... why???? it makes no sense?? yes its a hard hitting ability but forsake +9% armor pen to me its not worth it... someone show me why this is cos it makes no sence to me at all...

Sorry for the long post... but also never be afraid to run.... i know i know... but it can save your life, but more importantly u can come back to kill the target in a better situation exp: u try to make a stealth kill of a sniper at a node and a heal comes running to save him, heals comes and heals him back to full health... what do you do? run and leave it be unless u know for a fact u can kill them both. In a lvl 50 bracket situtation more than likey u run away dont give them the satisfaction of a free kill. Tanks and other melee class i would suggest fight them one on one cos more than liky you will pop a cooldown to kill them. Juggs and ops for example. if your not careful they can wipe your *** out. Again hit and run,if your low on hp and about to lose pop vanish and run away heal up and comeback for a rematch or heal up and kill him before he does... i hope you see the pattern am getting at. Just because u like the concept of the class it does not mean u like the mechanic of the class. stealth class hit and run, tanks flat out fight you up front, range fight at range. your mostliky putting your self in an open field. Dont do it. they pass u the ball pass it to someone else then restealth and kill who ever attack your ball carrior or healers. Play smart with this class u can get 15-30 killing blows per match. If u want to play a more open Toe to Toe fighter i think juggs right up your ally if not play like this and watch how fun the class can be and how much people will be pisted off at you and if people want to pick a fight with you... FARM'EM! till they get the point.... i hoped i help you out. But give the class a chance at what it is and you will love it!

My friend this is coming from a guy who pvp in many mmo's, i am guessing your playing the class in a wrong way..., why? the way you discribe the way u play it sounds like u play like a juggernaut or have too much balls for your own good. Firstly ive played a Rogue for 4 years non-stop and i can tell u the biggest thing about any stealth class is you CANNOT fight anyone toe-to-toe from the jump, you have stealth USE IT!. Never let the enemy see u first... take advange of the situation even if u have to let the enemy fight someone else and stab his *** in the back then kill him. Dont play with the mind set as am a tank or a up front melee fighter, dont put your self in the open field, pick targets carfully. your an assassin your job is to kill the range far in the back and kill them QUICKLY! then vanish into the shadows ASAP! and move to the next one. You can kill 2-3 people in very VERY short time easly. In huttball i can see your case to a point because when your up top and they know u off its a pain, but dont let then discorage u cos they can kock u off once for a short time and u can knock them off just the same again take advantage of the situation. Get in the mind set of i have weak armor but high dmg, WHO CAN I KILL IN A SHORT TIME AND GO BACK IN STEALTH before anyone notice am there. Pick on weak pvpers and pick off healers when u can. dont go after the tanks and heavy armored players UNLESS its a total one on one situation where u can pop cooldowns freely with out going to another fight with out anyway to survive the 2nd fight. HIT AND RUN! play like this and watch people drop like flies off the battlefield. If you see a set grp or people come after u over and over again your eather doing your job and there are pist at you! or they are scared and want to get rid of you before they have to FIGHT you! and if people want to pick fights with u FARM there *** cos u have the ability to do so in almost any given moment!

I agree with what dcgregorya said and its true cover for pvp limit the gunslinger a alittle too much vs some class like sage/scor and melee. Overall i love the class but they need to limit the covor useage in the dirty fighting tree and leave that for the other 2. Scor/sages can dps soo freely and easy and at a high rate, but we got to do all this duck and cover run intrup just to kill a skilled player who know what they are doing.... not saying we cant do the same its just we have to work twice as hard than some who can just faceroll skills and win fights. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bcMZ0cZGbrorrGd0R.1 is my pvp spec and wounding shots need to give back energy when it crits, dodge needs to last 6 secs, reduce the gosh darn energy cost of wound shot, vital shot and sharp grenade, give us the ability to limit healing like they gave sents or give us debuffs so we do somthing other than dps in pvp -25% healing to target would do nicely. Good class still needs some work in pvp and utility department.

this s*** is sooo funny!! LMAO!!!! but its very very very very very true. Did i mention is he is right!?